Letter before action
Discussion
Any advice would be much appreciated...
I booked and paid for a courier using an online aggregator service.
The courier was to pick up from a European country and deliver to the UK (but not to me).
The courier failed to pick up a couple of times such that the UK recipient no longer wanted the item.
Fair enough.
I cancelled the courier through the aggregator as you are supposed to do.
They returned my money (Paypal).
About 10 days later I receive an email stating that after I had cancelled the courier, the courier still picked up and then carried and delivered the item to the chap in the UK who accepted it (but still doesn't want it).
As a result they are now chasing me for the cost of the courier.
I emailed back to explain that I cancelled, and as far as I was concerned them failing to pass that message along to the courier was nothing to do with me.
They claim that handing the item to the courier makes me liable somehow.
(I was not the person handing the item to the courier - I told them I had cancelled it but the muppets still gave it to the courier.)
Their LBA says they will be claiming interest, court fees and solicitors costs if I don't pay in seven days.
It's only £45 but I genuinely don't understand why I should be liable for a service I cancelled.
There would be no way to reclaim the £45 from the chap who took the item - he doesn't want it.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
I booked and paid for a courier using an online aggregator service.
The courier was to pick up from a European country and deliver to the UK (but not to me).
The courier failed to pick up a couple of times such that the UK recipient no longer wanted the item.
Fair enough.
I cancelled the courier through the aggregator as you are supposed to do.
They returned my money (Paypal).
About 10 days later I receive an email stating that after I had cancelled the courier, the courier still picked up and then carried and delivered the item to the chap in the UK who accepted it (but still doesn't want it).
As a result they are now chasing me for the cost of the courier.
I emailed back to explain that I cancelled, and as far as I was concerned them failing to pass that message along to the courier was nothing to do with me.
They claim that handing the item to the courier makes me liable somehow.
(I was not the person handing the item to the courier - I told them I had cancelled it but the muppets still gave it to the courier.)
Their LBA says they will be claiming interest, court fees and solicitors costs if I don't pay in seven days.
It's only £45 but I genuinely don't understand why I should be liable for a service I cancelled.
There would be no way to reclaim the £45 from the chap who took the item - he doesn't want it.
Any thoughts much appreciated.
By "THEIR" do you mean the aggregator, the courier or the chap who handed it over?
The guy who handed it over already regarded me as incompetent so probably thought I had changed my mind and not told him, or something.
English was not his first language.
And in any case, I had said "don't worry about the courier now, but thanks for trying" rather than "under no circumstances hand anything to a courier since I have cancelled it and I might be liable for the fees if you do".
Mostly, I didn't say that because there is nothing in the aggregator's T&Cs that mention such an arrangement and I had my money back so naturally assumed that CANCELLING THE COURIER was something the aggregator should do, since arranging couriers is THEIR JOB!!!
The guy who handed it over already regarded me as incompetent so probably thought I had changed my mind and not told him, or something.
English was not his first language.
And in any case, I had said "don't worry about the courier now, but thanks for trying" rather than "under no circumstances hand anything to a courier since I have cancelled it and I might be liable for the fees if you do".
Mostly, I didn't say that because there is nothing in the aggregator's T&Cs that mention such an arrangement and I had my money back so naturally assumed that CANCELLING THE COURIER was something the aggregator should do, since arranging couriers is THEIR JOB!!!
Well the LBA is clearly boiler-plate and not from a solicitor or anything so hasn't cost them anything.
No "2" in the name, but exactly the same business model.
Frankly, they clearly have an issue communicating with the courier companies in a timely fashion.
There was another situation where they offered to send something back to me since the courier was having trouble delivering it (which I was happy with) and a week later they said..."oh sorry, the courier managed to deliver it yesterday".
No "2" in the name, but exactly the same business model.
Frankly, they clearly have an issue communicating with the courier companies in a timely fashion.
There was another situation where they offered to send something back to me since the courier was having trouble delivering it (which I was happy with) and a week later they said..."oh sorry, the courier managed to deliver it yesterday".
The courts expect you to act reasonably, so while I think actual court action is very unlikely it would be worth a reply in case it does come to that.
I'd write and just tell them that you had cancelled the service, they knew you had cancelled it as they refunded the money, you, from that point, had no obligation to them at all and that any failing between them and their principle (the courier firm) is a matter for them to resolve, its not for you to interfere in their principle/agent relationship.
Tempting as it may be I wouldn't invoke the Arkell v Pressdram principle here.
I'd write and just tell them that you had cancelled the service, they knew you had cancelled it as they refunded the money, you, from that point, had no obligation to them at all and that any failing between them and their principle (the courier firm) is a matter for them to resolve, its not for you to interfere in their principle/agent relationship.
Tempting as it may be I wouldn't invoke the Arkell v Pressdram principle here.
Ha!
Thanks The Rookie, but I have essentially done that prior to the LBA.
They asked me to pay via email, I replied no almost exactly as you suggested, and then they sent the LBA.
Not sure it is really worth replying to the LBA with the same comments again?
I am tempted to reply that I am happy to fight it, just to give their solicitors more evidence that it isn't worth them taking it further.
It really seems crazy that I can book a service, pay for it, cancel it according to their T&Cs and have the money returned and THEN some random period later somehow owe them money!!
Thanks The Rookie, but I have essentially done that prior to the LBA.
They asked me to pay via email, I replied no almost exactly as you suggested, and then they sent the LBA.
Not sure it is really worth replying to the LBA with the same comments again?
I am tempted to reply that I am happy to fight it, just to give their solicitors more evidence that it isn't worth them taking it further.
It really seems crazy that I can book a service, pay for it, cancel it according to their T&Cs and have the money returned and THEN some random period later somehow owe them money!!
I understand what you have put, but the pre-action protocols require parties to try and resolve the matter, while it’s unlikely any judge would decide you acted unreasonably having replied once, for 64p (or whatever it’s gone up to now) I would send it anyway, first class with free proof of postage.
If a judge decides you act unreasonably they can award costs against you even if you win and that could (unlikely I know) then be very expensive.
At the same time under the same PAP you can ask them for whatever evidence they have that you think would help your case, such as whether they contacted the courier to cancel and what reply they got.......
If a judge decides you act unreasonably they can award costs against you even if you win and that could (unlikely I know) then be very expensive.
At the same time under the same PAP you can ask them for whatever evidence they have that you think would help your case, such as whether they contacted the courier to cancel and what reply they got.......
Jasandjules said:
Email them back with a copy of the cancellation email and tell them they are at fault and further correspondence will be chargeable at the Litigant In Person hourly rate (if that exceeds your own hourly rate that is, if not, our rate).
Here is the problem - I corresponded via the online chat option on their site and do not have a copy of that chat anywhere.However, in one of the emails, the correspondent wrote "I can confirm that we cancelled this order in good faith..."
In fact, the correspondent keeps repeating the phrase "good faith", yet in this context, I have no idea what they believe that it means...
Also, of course, they GAVE ME A FULL REFUND, which clearly isn't something they would do unless they were happy I had adhered to their T&Cs - which I did.
I should mention that the time between the refund and their next contact with me (requesting I pay them)... was 16 days!!
I have told them repeatedly that they are at fault (they should have cancelled the courier).
I am not sure about the exact process but if it goes to court and I win then of course I will be asking the judge for my costs, but right now I am very keen just to be reasonable such that the actual legal team recognise that I am not just going to roll over or think that I am some Perry Mason wannabe who has no clue.
Costs in small claims are very limited, basically you’ll get none apart from the witnesses (as you’ll also be your own factual witness) loss of earnings (capped at £90/day) unless you can show they were unreasonable, that’s often hard but in this case you have a decent chance, but judges are loath to give out costs generally speaking on the small claims track.
I'd not worry, just keep batting it back. You cancelled, they agreed you cancelled both in writing and by refunding. Just reply saying that. I'd not get into any other dialogue about what actions they took after you made the cancellation. I might eventually re-invite them to re-explain why they think you are liable. But if they just keep saying pay up you owe us, keep replying, no I won't because I don't as I cancelled.
Bert
Bert
Jasandjules said:
Then just email them and say "X Company provided a full refund on Y date. This of itself ought to be sufficient for your firm to ascertain the correct position. Any further correspondence will be charged at Z/ph"
Sadly from what I can determine, The Rookie is right. You can't just threaten to charge them for replying to their communications, no matter how frivolous.You need to go to court as a defendant in the original matter, win, apply for the (very severely limited) costs to be awarded to you and THEN it's still rare for the judge to award them unless the other side has been unreasonable.
I just want to appear utterly reasonable rather than making groundless threats... since THEY are the ones doing that!
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