Courier won't compensate for damage or return property
Discussion
Really hoping someone can advise where I stand with this please. I'll try and keep it as brief as possible:
1. 10th April booked Parcelforce (via ParcelMonkey) to collect 3 x 25kg tubs of patio grout which I had to return to the shop originally purchased from. Gave correct weights/dimensions and paid £5 extra to insure for up to £350 as they are valuable. I was returning them in the exact containers they were delivered in. Unopened, unused so assumed the packaging to be sufficient.
2. Driver collects from my office, I help him to the van, he drops one of the tubs on to the pavement splitting it and spilling some of the contents. He takes all 3 anyway and I give him a couple of bin bags to stop any of the powder spilling in his van. I tell ParcelMonkey and they tell me to wait until they've been delivered to claim.
3. Delivery is made to the shop I bought them from, only 1 tub is delivered as ParcelForce have damaged yet another one. They hold the other two at their depot. Shop refunds me the £105 or so for one of the tubs and I start the claim process with ParcelMonkey.
4. To cut a long(er) story short they refuse the claim citing 'insufficient packaging' and then detail how it should have x inches around the outside stuffed with foam peanuts then a 3 ply box etc etc.
It seems they're completely shafting me as are also refusing to return my goods saying that the packaging is too damaged. Not only did I pay for insurance, which they gladly accepted and won't refund, but they are holding over £200 of my goods which surely can't be right?
1. 10th April booked Parcelforce (via ParcelMonkey) to collect 3 x 25kg tubs of patio grout which I had to return to the shop originally purchased from. Gave correct weights/dimensions and paid £5 extra to insure for up to £350 as they are valuable. I was returning them in the exact containers they were delivered in. Unopened, unused so assumed the packaging to be sufficient.
2. Driver collects from my office, I help him to the van, he drops one of the tubs on to the pavement splitting it and spilling some of the contents. He takes all 3 anyway and I give him a couple of bin bags to stop any of the powder spilling in his van. I tell ParcelMonkey and they tell me to wait until they've been delivered to claim.
3. Delivery is made to the shop I bought them from, only 1 tub is delivered as ParcelForce have damaged yet another one. They hold the other two at their depot. Shop refunds me the £105 or so for one of the tubs and I start the claim process with ParcelMonkey.
4. To cut a long(er) story short they refuse the claim citing 'insufficient packaging' and then detail how it should have x inches around the outside stuffed with foam peanuts then a 3 ply box etc etc.
It seems they're completely shafting me as are also refusing to return my goods saying that the packaging is too damaged. Not only did I pay for insurance, which they gladly accepted and won't refund, but they are holding over £200 of my goods which surely can't be right?
olimain said:
Really hoping someone can advise where I stand with this please. I'll try and keep it as brief as possible:
1. 10th April booked Parcelforce (via ParcelMonkey) to collect 3 x 25kg tubs of patio grout which I had to return to the shop originally purchased from. Gave correct weights/dimensions and paid £5 extra to insure for up to £350 as they are valuable. I was returning them in the exact containers they were delivered in. Unopened, unused so assumed the packaging to be sufficient.
2. Driver collects from my office, I help him to the van, he drops one of the tubs on to the pavement splitting it and spilling the contents. He takes all 3 anyway and I give him a couple of bin bags to stop any of the powder spilling in his van. I tell ParcelMonkey and they tell me to wait until they've been delivered to claim.
3. Delivery is made to the shop I bought them from, only 1 tub is delivered as ParcelForce have damaged yet another one. Shop refunds me the £105 or so for one of the tubs and I start the claim process with ParcelMonkey.
4. To cut a long(er) story short they refuse the claim citing 'insufficient packaging' and then detail how it should have x inches around the outside stuffed with foam peanuts then a 3 ply box etc etc.
It seems they're completely shafting me as are also refusing to return my goods saying that the packaging is too damaged. Not only did I pay for insurance, which they gladly accepted and won't refund, but they are holding over £200 of my goods which surely can't be right?
Had you signed over the goods before they were damaged, or after?1. 10th April booked Parcelforce (via ParcelMonkey) to collect 3 x 25kg tubs of patio grout which I had to return to the shop originally purchased from. Gave correct weights/dimensions and paid £5 extra to insure for up to £350 as they are valuable. I was returning them in the exact containers they were delivered in. Unopened, unused so assumed the packaging to be sufficient.
2. Driver collects from my office, I help him to the van, he drops one of the tubs on to the pavement splitting it and spilling the contents. He takes all 3 anyway and I give him a couple of bin bags to stop any of the powder spilling in his van. I tell ParcelMonkey and they tell me to wait until they've been delivered to claim.
3. Delivery is made to the shop I bought them from, only 1 tub is delivered as ParcelForce have damaged yet another one. Shop refunds me the £105 or so for one of the tubs and I start the claim process with ParcelMonkey.
4. To cut a long(er) story short they refuse the claim citing 'insufficient packaging' and then detail how it should have x inches around the outside stuffed with foam peanuts then a 3 ply box etc etc.
It seems they're completely shafting me as are also refusing to return my goods saying that the packaging is too damaged. Not only did I pay for insurance, which they gladly accepted and won't refund, but they are holding over £200 of my goods which surely can't be right?
BrabusMog said:
Had you signed over the goods before they were damaged, or after?
Before. The driver wasn't phased at all, happily took them and there's been no dispute at all that they damaged them. They are just blaming the damage on poor packaging (despite all three having successfully made it to me in Surrey from Lancashire in the first place).olimain said:
BrabusMog said:
Had you signed over the goods before they were damaged, or after?
Before. The driver wasn't phased at all, happily took them and there's been no dispute at all that they damaged them. They are just blaming the damage on poor packaging (despite all three having successfully made it to me in Surrey from Lancashire in the first place).This is the level of detail that they went in to about the packaging. It seems way OTT to expect your average person sending a parcel to know the ins and outs of what is considered ideal packaging. I hadn't even opened these items and returned them exactly how they were delivered:
Parcelforce said:
Further to review of the photographic evidence, I am not satisfied that the item would be sufficiently protected wrapped solely in just a plastic tub.. A box of at least 3 ply should have been used and this should have been larger enough to allow at least 4 inch clearance between the item and the outer packaging. This would leave sufficient space to allow for adequate internal packaging.
Internally the item should have been secured with polystyrene block surrounds. This should be further strengthened by polystyrene chippings and copious amounts of bubble wrap.
Following a review of the information supplied, we have to advise that we cannot offer compensation on your claim due to insufficient packaging being used to post the goods.
Internally the item should have been secured with polystyrene block surrounds. This should be further strengthened by polystyrene chippings and copious amounts of bubble wrap.
Following a review of the information supplied, we have to advise that we cannot offer compensation on your claim due to insufficient packaging being used to post the goods.
olimain said:
This is the level of detail that they went in to about the packaging. It seems way OTT to expect your average person sending a parcel to know the ins and outs of what is considered ideal packaging. I hadn't even opened these items and returned them exactly how they were delivered:
Can't you just reply saying that the driver dropped it? Most boxes will break if they're dropped with something heavy inside.Parcelforce said:
Further to review of the photographic evidence, I am not satisfied that the item would be sufficiently protected wrapped solely in just a plastic tub.. A box of at least 3 ply should have been used and this should have been larger enough to allow at least 4 inch clearance between the item and the outer packaging. This would leave sufficient space to allow for adequate internal packaging.
Internally the item should have been secured with polystyrene block surrounds. This should be further strengthened by polystyrene chippings and copious amounts of bubble wrap.
Following a review of the information supplied, we have to advise that we cannot offer compensation on your claim due to insufficient packaging being used to post the goods.
Internally the item should have been secured with polystyrene block surrounds. This should be further strengthened by polystyrene chippings and copious amounts of bubble wrap.
Following a review of the information supplied, we have to advise that we cannot offer compensation on your claim due to insufficient packaging being used to post the goods.
olimain said:
The driver wasn't phased at all, happily took them and there's been no dispute at all that they damaged them. They are just blaming the damage on poor packaging (despite all three having successfully made it to me in Surrey from Lancashire in the first place).
Just because they all got to you doesn't mean they're "right". The supplier may well take the view that it's cheaper to take the occasional loss (at trade price) than to package every single one "correctly".TooMany2cvs said:
Just because they all got to you doesn't mean they're "right". The supplier may well take the view that it's cheaper to take the occasional loss (at trade price) than to package every single one "correctly".
That may well be the case, who knows. Can Parcelforce actually both retain my property AND refuse to pay out though? Surely it's one or the other.defblade said:
Surely the driver (who would be the professional involved in this contract) should have refused to pick them up if they weren't packaged well enough?
That is what I would say too.If the driver accepted them, than a contract was clearly entered into, and the minimum training you would expect a driver to have been given is to assess what he is collecting.
TooMany2cvs said:
The damaged tubs will have been disposed of. If they retained any value, then you wouldn't be claiming for their full value...
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make here. They've refused my claim so I've asked for the items back in the hope I may be able to at least salvage something usable. They are refusing that too. Did you follow the packaging guidelines for liquids and powders which state, for example, that the containers should be placed in another outer container and wrapped in strong plastic:
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
Note that they clearly state: " If your goods are not packaged sufficiently and become damaged any compensation cover provided on our services will be invalidated."
The fact that they were delivered to you in any particular way is irrelevant.
This is further complicated by your contract presumably being with parcelmonkey who have their own packaging guidelines, although these also mention inner and outer packaging: https://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/modules/static/temp...
I think you'll be lucky to get any compensation at all.
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
Note that they clearly state: " If your goods are not packaged sufficiently and become damaged any compensation cover provided on our services will be invalidated."
The fact that they were delivered to you in any particular way is irrelevant.
This is further complicated by your contract presumably being with parcelmonkey who have their own packaging guidelines, although these also mention inner and outer packaging: https://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/modules/static/temp...
I think you'll be lucky to get any compensation at all.
jamei303 said:
Did you follow the packaging guidelines for liquids and powders which state, for example, that the containers should be placed in another outer container and wrapped in strong plastic:
https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
Note that they clearly state: " If your goods are not packaged sufficiently and become damaged any compensation cover provided on our services will be invalidated."
The fact that they were delivered to you in any particular way is irrelevant.
This is further complicated by your contract presumably being with parcelmonkey who have their own packaging guidelines, although these also mention inner and outer packaging: https://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/modules/static/temp...
I think you'll be lucky to get any compensation at all.
According to them and this it would certainly appear not, not that I could have known how they were packaged as they were unopened. Another product I ordered from this company (which I have opened) was tub within a tub with inner polystyrene packaging. No doubt it's my responsibility to ensure though of course opening the product to check how it was packaged would then have meant I couldn't get a refund on it!https://www.parcelforce.com/help-and-advice/sendin...
Note that they clearly state: " If your goods are not packaged sufficiently and become damaged any compensation cover provided on our services will be invalidated."
The fact that they were delivered to you in any particular way is irrelevant.
This is further complicated by your contract presumably being with parcelmonkey who have their own packaging guidelines, although these also mention inner and outer packaging: https://www.parcelmonkey.co.uk/modules/static/temp...
I think you'll be lucky to get any compensation at all.
Are they legally allowed to both refuse the claim AND refuse to return my goods?
Parcelforce would presumably say that the onus is on the shipper to make sure the packaging is correct, and that their drivers (who could presumably be contracted at short notice, temp workers, etc) can't be expected to know the ins and outs of the requirements for each parcel.
Who originally delivered them? Presumably not Parcelforce? Different couriers have different requirements for shipping.
On the face of it if you've electronically signed to say that you agree with the terms & conditions (re: sufficient packaging), then them subsequently breaking because it doesn't meet their requirements is on you. IANAL though.
Who originally delivered them? Presumably not Parcelforce? Different couriers have different requirements for shipping.
On the face of it if you've electronically signed to say that you agree with the terms & conditions (re: sufficient packaging), then them subsequently breaking because it doesn't meet their requirements is on you. IANAL though.
jamei303 said:
They can refuse to return them yes, but have you asked about collecting them? However if the packaging was damaged and grout spilled everywhere it would be unreasonable for you to expect them to retain the goods in storage.
They sent me a photo of the one that they split at the depot - it hadn't spilt everywhere as it's a granular product rather than a fine powder. The one the driver split I went back in to the office and got him bags to protect his van. There was very little lost from both.I've just heard back:
Parcelmonkey said:
Unfortunately the depot disposed the goods due to the damages.
Can they just do that? Throw my items away during an ongoing claim?olimain said:
Can they just do that? Throw my items away during an ongoing claim?
Probably covered by this parcelmoneky condition:"If the carrier concludes that there is a problem with the consignment which prevents the fulfilment of the service, you will be notified accordingly. If the problem is caused as a result of your breach of our terms and conditions, then you will pay the cost of carriage for the safe return of the consignment to the original collection address. If the consignment is not safe to return, 72 hours will be given from the date and time you are notified of the problem to collect the consignment from the carriers depot. If you do not collect the consignment within this time frame, the consignment may be disposed."
jamei303 said:
Probably covered by this parcelmoneky condition:
"If the carrier concludes that there is a problem with the consignment which prevents the fulfilment of the service, you will be notified accordingly. If the problem is caused as a result of your breach of our terms and conditions, then you will pay the cost of carriage for the safe return of the consignment to the original collection address. If the consignment is not safe to return, 72 hours will be given from the date and time you are notified of the problem to collect the consignment from the carriers depot. If you do not collect the consignment within this time frame, the consignment may be disposed."
I had no notification at all that it was going to be disposed of and no offer of an option to collect it."If the carrier concludes that there is a problem with the consignment which prevents the fulfilment of the service, you will be notified accordingly. If the problem is caused as a result of your breach of our terms and conditions, then you will pay the cost of carriage for the safe return of the consignment to the original collection address. If the consignment is not safe to return, 72 hours will be given from the date and time you are notified of the problem to collect the consignment from the carriers depot. If you do not collect the consignment within this time frame, the consignment may be disposed."
By the way. Thanks for the advice and opinions so far everyone.
Edited by olimain on Monday 14th May 14:48
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