Sisters childcare maintenance problems
Discussion
Could anyone give me some advice to pass onto my sister who I feel is being royally done over by her (husband/separated) this is a post she has made on a forum for mums, I am hoping I could get some legal thoughts on the matter as he is not co-operating at all.
Hi everyone,
Need advise and don't know where to turn.
Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. He hasn't taking this well. We have two young children which I have the majority of the time.
Currently I have the children 4 days and the ex 3. On a couple of the days he has them from 4pm after work (they go to sleep at 6.30/7) and then drops them off with me at 7am. I then after either pay for childcare which I already pay for every other day or I look after them.
I am not on the best salary he will be on twice as much but he refuses to pay for the childcare on the days he supposed to have his children.
Resulting in the fact that as he is having them for 3 nights then he only needs to pay minimum amount of child maintenance. I am struggling to pay the huge childcare bill and would like to know where I stand. Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
Any help or advice would be appreciated.
Hi everyone,
Need advise and don't know where to turn.
Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. He hasn't taking this well. We have two young children which I have the majority of the time.
Currently I have the children 4 days and the ex 3. On a couple of the days he has them from 4pm after work (they go to sleep at 6.30/7) and then drops them off with me at 7am. I then after either pay for childcare which I already pay for every other day or I look after them.
I am not on the best salary he will be on twice as much but he refuses to pay for the childcare on the days he supposed to have his children.
Resulting in the fact that as he is having them for 3 nights then he only needs to pay minimum amount of child maintenance. I am struggling to pay the huge childcare bill and would like to know where I stand. Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
Any help or advice would be appreciated.
m3sye said:
this is a post she has made on a forum for mums,
Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. ..................... Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
I suspect you will get very different advice here to the other forum!!Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. ..................... Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
Maybe you should have thought about childcare (and lots of other things) and putting more effort into sorting it before deciding to separate "for the simple reason I wasn't happy"
I might be missing the point here but I don't understand why you think your ex should pay you for childcare on the days he's already looking after them.
I have no idea of the legal side but if this is a "How can I screw my ex?" thread I don't think it'll go well.
Apart from needing English lessons the mother should look at:
Who has the children in terms of days/year?
She has them 4 days/week, he has them 3 days/week. He should pay for anything incurred during his time with them, and towards the 1 day/week the mother has them over and above the 3 days/week. She will pay for the 3 days/week and a share of the 4th day/week.
Who has the children in terms of days/year?
She has them 4 days/week, he has them 3 days/week. He should pay for anything incurred during his time with them, and towards the 1 day/week the mother has them over and above the 3 days/week. She will pay for the 3 days/week and a share of the 4th day/week.
No legal help here but how about she offers for him to have them an extra day (one where they are in day care), he pays for the care and he picks them up after work and they stay at his until 7 the next morning again.
If theres some incentive (him seeing them for a few hours) then he may be more likely to pay.
Edit - Or what Kevin says above - more swayed in her favour.
If theres some incentive (him seeing them for a few hours) then he may be more likely to pay.
Edit - Or what Kevin says above - more swayed in her favour.
NGee said:
I suspect you will get very different advice here to the other forum!!
Maybe you should have thought about childcare (and lots of other things) and putting more effort into sorting it before deciding to separate "for the simple reason I wasn't happy"
I might be missing the point here but I don't understand why you think your ex should pay you for childcare on the days he's already looking after them.
I have no idea of the legal side but if this is a "How can I screw my ex?" thread I don't think it'll go well.
I am simply trying to help her our as she is struggling, she has just taken on a full time job - he takes them in an evening every alternate week wed/thurs but drops them off in the morning for her to pay for them to go in childcare whilst he goes to work -Maybe you should have thought about childcare (and lots of other things) and putting more effort into sorting it before deciding to separate "for the simple reason I wasn't happy"
I might be missing the point here but I don't understand why you think your ex should pay you for childcare on the days he's already looking after them.
I have no idea of the legal side but if this is a "How can I screw my ex?" thread I don't think it'll go well.
She is doing anything other than trying to screw him she is just struggling and I have said this does not sound right - if a woman trying to bring up 2 kids by herself working fulltime taking £200 a month from her ex is trying to screw someone then its new to me...
Edited by m3sye on Wednesday 6th June 12:30
KevinCamaroSS said:
Apart from needing English lessons the mother should look at:
Who has the children in terms of days/year?
She has them 4 days/week, he has them 3 days/week. He should pay for anything incurred during his time with them, and towards the 1 day/week the mother has them over and above the 3 days/week. She will pay for the 3 days/week and a share of the 4th day/week.
Thank you Kevin, I did say the same Who has the children in terms of days/year?
She has them 4 days/week, he has them 3 days/week. He should pay for anything incurred during his time with them, and towards the 1 day/week the mother has them over and above the 3 days/week. She will pay for the 3 days/week and a share of the 4th day/week.
She is not trying to screw him over 1 bit as one poster says but her childcare costs are £550 a month as she has gone from PT to FT - the days he has them WedThurs he drops them off with her and says she should pay the childcare when they are both going to work) I simply said it sounds wrong, she cannot afford proper legal advice so I was hoping to get some help on here..
Have you offered any tough love advice?
Along the lines of, whether she considered the financial and practical viability of ending the relationship.
Sometimes feels and tingles have to be put to one side for some time, to get through a situation.
Looked at objectively as poss, does the ex deserve familylawaggedon?
Along the lines of, whether she considered the financial and practical viability of ending the relationship.
Sometimes feels and tingles have to be put to one side for some time, to get through a situation.
Looked at objectively as poss, does the ex deserve familylawaggedon?
Torquey said:
No legal help here but how about she offers for him to have them an extra day (one where they are in day care), he pays for the care and he picks them up after work and they stay at his until 7 the next morning again.
If theres some incentive (him seeing them for a few hours) then he may be more likely to pay.
Edit - Or what Kevin says above - more swayed in her favour.
Thanks Torquey , from what I can gather its his way or the highway, she has tried to sort things out as fair as possibleIf theres some incentive (him seeing them for a few hours) then he may be more likely to pay.
Edit - Or what Kevin says above - more swayed in her favour.
She left him took nothing, not a piece of furniture from the house as she just wanted things to be ok for the children. He has dictated to her what she pays and when she has them but as she cannot afford legal advice she has kind of had to take it...
m3sye said:
Thanks Torquey , from what I can gather its his way or the highway, she has tried to sort things out as fair as possible
He has dictated to her what she pays and when she has them but as she cannot afford legal advice she has kind of had to take it...
As has been said, she has precipitated the situation by splitting because she wasn't happy. He has dictated to her what she pays and when she has them but as she cannot afford legal advice she has kind of had to take it...
She's now still not happy, but for different reasons.
Different forums will give different responses depending upon the sort of person who frequents them. I think we can all see the sort of response this post will get on here.
2Btoo said:
As has been said, she has precipitated the situation by splitting because she wasn't happy.
She's now still not happy, but for different reasons.
Different forums will give different responses depending upon the sort of person who frequents them. I think we can all see the sort of response this post will get on here.
Of course, there are more reasons to them breaking up than 'not happy' but I doubt you or me need to hear them - if you dont have any advice its easy to just pass a thread by.She's now still not happy, but for different reasons.
Different forums will give different responses depending upon the sort of person who frequents them. I think we can all see the sort of response this post will get on here.
As I have said multiple times she is not trying or wanting to screw him or anyone over I have asked her to get advice as I see how much she is struggling and I personally do not think its right she is paying for the childcare the 2 days he has them when he goes to work - if that's screwing someone over then its news to me.
Doesn't it depend on how any "settlement" has been reached?
It's been quite a while since I looked in to it but it used to be the differences were;
> CSA (or whatever they're called now) impartial review of both peoples income and then some formula to work out who pays who how much, can be reviewed at any time and can go up and we as down.
> Consent - both parties mutually agree how much to whom etc, to my mind they had an agreement which was working, your sister has changed her circumstances to earn more money (going from Part to full time) but in doing so has increased the childcare costs and now expecting her ex-partner to cover the costs incurred by her choosing to change her circumstances. WHen the children move out of nursery and into full time education will she expect a reduction in maintenance? At the end of the day it's a negotiation, possibly the worst type of agreement in my mind as neither party knows where they really stand.
> Consent/clean break - it is was it is, neither party ever has any rights to renegotiate ever no matter what.
It's been quite a while since I looked in to it but it used to be the differences were;
> CSA (or whatever they're called now) impartial review of both peoples income and then some formula to work out who pays who how much, can be reviewed at any time and can go up and we as down.
> Consent - both parties mutually agree how much to whom etc, to my mind they had an agreement which was working, your sister has changed her circumstances to earn more money (going from Part to full time) but in doing so has increased the childcare costs and now expecting her ex-partner to cover the costs incurred by her choosing to change her circumstances. WHen the children move out of nursery and into full time education will she expect a reduction in maintenance? At the end of the day it's a negotiation, possibly the worst type of agreement in my mind as neither party knows where they really stand.
> Consent/clean break - it is was it is, neither party ever has any rights to renegotiate ever no matter what.
Marcellus said:
Doesn't it depend on how any "settlement" has been reached?
It's been quite a while since I looked in to it but it used to be the differences were;
> CSA (or whatever they're called now) impartial review of both peoples income and then some formula to work out who pays who how much, can be reviewed at any time and can go up and we as down.
> Consent - both parties mutually agree how much to whom etc, to my mind they had an agreement which was working, your sister has changed her circumstances to earn more money (going from Part to full time) but in doing so has increased the childcare costs and now expecting her ex-partner to cover the costs incurred by her choosing to change her circumstances. WHen the children move out of nursery and into full time education will she expect a reduction in maintenance? At the end of the day it's a negotiation, possibly the worst type of agreement in my mind as neither party knows where they really stand.
> Consent/clean break - it is was it is, neither party ever has any rights to renegotiate ever no matter what.
Thank MarcellusIt's been quite a while since I looked in to it but it used to be the differences were;
> CSA (or whatever they're called now) impartial review of both peoples income and then some formula to work out who pays who how much, can be reviewed at any time and can go up and we as down.
> Consent - both parties mutually agree how much to whom etc, to my mind they had an agreement which was working, your sister has changed her circumstances to earn more money (going from Part to full time) but in doing so has increased the childcare costs and now expecting her ex-partner to cover the costs incurred by her choosing to change her circumstances. WHen the children move out of nursery and into full time education will she expect a reduction in maintenance? At the end of the day it's a negotiation, possibly the worst type of agreement in my mind as neither party knows where they really stand.
> Consent/clean break - it is was it is, neither party ever has any rights to renegotiate ever no matter what.
I'm still not sure I understand the situation.
They're separated but still married, correct? There is no legal arrangement in place to cater for care of the children?
If that's the case, he has not legal obligation to pay anything towards anything. However, should it even get to court, the judge wouldn't look kindly on him not helping with costs.
So, legally, she either wants to get divorced, pronto, or needs to consider obtaining an interim order which covers child maint type costs.
If they're married, there are no 'personal assets/funds', so surely if he's not spending money, and she is, then when any assets are divided through divorce, that could be taking into account.
Probably not a popular opinion, but I'd suggest:
1) He pays for childcare on the 3 days
2) They use the CSA calculator to establish what he pays monthly
If he won't do either of those, then go for the interim order.
They're separated but still married, correct? There is no legal arrangement in place to cater for care of the children?
If that's the case, he has not legal obligation to pay anything towards anything. However, should it even get to court, the judge wouldn't look kindly on him not helping with costs.
So, legally, she either wants to get divorced, pronto, or needs to consider obtaining an interim order which covers child maint type costs.
If they're married, there are no 'personal assets/funds', so surely if he's not spending money, and she is, then when any assets are divided through divorce, that could be taking into account.
Probably not a popular opinion, but I'd suggest:
1) He pays for childcare on the 3 days
2) They use the CSA calculator to establish what he pays monthly
If he won't do either of those, then go for the interim order.
For child support there are calculators available online, but if he has the children 3 days a week I doubt the payments would be much.
The only other option before a financial hearing in the likely to come divorce would be to apply to the courts for Interim Spousal Maintenance payments. This might be of use: https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/...
You'd need to convince the court it was necessary and proportionate to do so. It'll depend on her earnings and outgoings. Just because he earns twice as much doesn't mean the court would think an interim order is necessary, as long as she had enough to cover expenses.... possibly even if she thinks money is tight.
The only other option before a financial hearing in the likely to come divorce would be to apply to the courts for Interim Spousal Maintenance payments. This might be of use: https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/...
You'd need to convince the court it was necessary and proportionate to do so. It'll depend on her earnings and outgoings. Just because he earns twice as much doesn't mean the court would think an interim order is necessary, as long as she had enough to cover expenses.... possibly even if she thinks money is tight.
m3sye said:
Could anyone give me some advice to pass onto my sister who I feel is being royally done over by her (husband/separated) this is a post she has made on a forum for mums, I am hoping I could get some legal thoughts on the matter as he is not co-operating at all.
Hi everyone,
Need advise and don't know where to turn.
Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. He hasn't taking this well. We have two young children which I have the majority of the time.
Currently I have the children 4 days and the ex 3. On a couple of the days he has them from 4pm after work (they go to sleep at 6.30/7) and then drops them off with me at 7am. I then after either pay for childcare which I already pay for every other day or I look after them.
I am not on the best salary he will be on twice as much but he refuses to pay for the childcare on the days he supposed to have his children.
Resulting in the fact that as he is having them for 3 nights then he only needs to pay minimum amount of child maintenance. I am struggling to pay the huge childcare bill and would like to know where I stand. Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
Any help or advice would be appreciated.
I'd say he should be paying for childcare on the mornings the children wake up with him, or he should get them to school himself. I had to get mine to school on "my" days and it was a right ballache but it's fair.Hi everyone,
Need advise and don't know where to turn.
Me and my ex husband separated last year, for the simple reason I wasn't happy. He hasn't taking this well. We have two young children which I have the majority of the time.
Currently I have the children 4 days and the ex 3. On a couple of the days he has them from 4pm after work (they go to sleep at 6.30/7) and then drops them off with me at 7am. I then after either pay for childcare which I already pay for every other day or I look after them.
I am not on the best salary he will be on twice as much but he refuses to pay for the childcare on the days he supposed to have his children.
Resulting in the fact that as he is having them for 3 nights then he only needs to pay minimum amount of child maintenance. I am struggling to pay the huge childcare bill and would like to know where I stand. Does the ex-need to pay for the childcare on his days/nights with the children???
Any help or advice would be appreciated.
spookly said:
For child support there are calculators available online, but if he has the children 3 days a week I doubt the payments would be much.
Surely the point of the original post is that he doesn't have then 3 days a week - he has then 3 nights a week. Which means that the (soon to be ex?) wife is paying 5 days childcare, even though the kids spend 3 nights with their dad. He should be paying childcare for the days he has them (although equally, if his 3 days are all during the week then I'd say it's unfair that he pays the majority of the childcare even though he sees his kids less than half of a 7 day week).Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff