Refusing entry to land
Discussion
Yes. Although it's a balance between principle and having a s
t wall facing you if they can still build without entering your land. Have they spoken to you? If they haven't then more fool them if they expect access. Have you spoken to them? Normally a party wall surveyor should be employed.
My Dad has a a lot of commercial properties and where access is required, his solicitor draws up licences to specify cost of access, the timescale of access and a deposit to cover damage and failure to clean up.
t wall facing you if they can still build without entering your land. Have they spoken to you? If they haven't then more fool them if they expect access. Have you spoken to them? Normally a party wall surveyor should be employed. My Dad has a a lot of commercial properties and where access is required, his solicitor draws up licences to specify cost of access, the timescale of access and a deposit to cover damage and failure to clean up.
In a word, yes.
If you don't get on with the neighbour then there is not much to lose, other than an increase in hostility. If you do, or want to, get on with the neighbour then you can negotiate some compensation or be civilised and allow them reasonable access for free.
They could probably build it from their side but they wouldn't be able to render the brickwork to make it look nice (if it's right up to the boundary). The ugly side would then be your loss as you'd have to look at it every day. That said, it may contravene the planning permission if it's not finished to an acceptable standard.
If you don't get on with the neighbour then there is not much to lose, other than an increase in hostility. If you do, or want to, get on with the neighbour then you can negotiate some compensation or be civilised and allow them reasonable access for free.
They could probably build it from their side but they wouldn't be able to render the brickwork to make it look nice (if it's right up to the boundary). The ugly side would then be your loss as you'd have to look at it every day. That said, it may contravene the planning permission if it's not finished to an acceptable standard.
OP you can refuse access, however beware of doing this as it can very easily backfire on you. Case in point, a buddy of mine is currently having his kitchen extended and one side neighbour refused access and refused the removal of the short wooden fence that is on the property boundary and has been deemed "shared". As such by mate is simply building up to the fence, leaving an inch or so gap - which has been signed off by council planners - as such if/when neighbour decides to remove already rotting fence they are going to be facing an unrendered standard brick wall, whilst neighbours on the other side get a nicely rendered victorian-redbrick wall which matches rest of the rear of the property.
I can't see much reason why you'd refuse access unless you have some actual concerns over damage / time lines/ or the building work itself? If its just spite, then it'll probably bit you in the arse at some point.
I can't see much reason why you'd refuse access unless you have some actual concerns over damage / time lines/ or the building work itself? If its just spite, then it'll probably bit you in the arse at some point.
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
Tree preservation order.It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
This will be covered by the Party Wall Act. It sounds as if the garage is already a party wall. It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
Elysium said:
mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
This will be covered by the Party Wall Act. It sounds as if the garage is already a party wall. It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
mikeveal said:
Tree preservation order.
Yes, they should get one of these sharpish.Regardless though, damaging the trees would be actionable even without a TPO.
REALIST123 said:
Really? It sounds like the wall is on a different street, isn’t a party wall but is just an eyesore.
Sounded like it was the wall forming the boundary at the bottom of the garden to me, which would make it a party wall.mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
Most "standard" footings would be equally capable of supporting one or two storeys so don't assume new foundations will be required. More likely to be an issue if the garage is single skin and the upward extension is cavity.It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
REALIST123 said:
Really? It sounds like the wall is on a different street, isn’t a party wall but is just an eyesore.
Which street the property fronts is not relevant to the existence of a party wall. They could be back-to-back.Elysium said:
mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
This will be covered by the Party Wall Act. It sounds as if the garage is already a party wall. It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/40/secti...
I had an identical situation where I used to live. *
The garage was wholly on the adjacent property.
It could easily be the same for the OP's parents.
* Fortunately the issue of constructing a 2nd floor never arose.
mikeveal said:
Tree preservation order.
A TPO will not prevent planning permission being granted. OP, has it been?If granted (and that is by no means guaranteed) it merely means that the LA must assess the risk.
TPO or not, the trees could still be problem (for both parties).
I wouldn't be in the least surprised if the neighbour hasn't considered all the potential ramifications.
OP, you may find these links of interest.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t...
https://www.inbrief.co.uk/neighbour-disputes/remov...
hutchst said:
mph999 said:
No, not spite, just curious.
It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
Most "standard" footings would be equally capable of supporting one or two storeys so don't assume new foundations will be required. More likely to be an issue if the garage is single skin and the upward extension is cavity.It's my parents, at the end of their back garden, which is quite small Is the side wall of a garage in a different street. The owners want to build on top of this garage which is going to be an eyesore, but ...
I presume they will have to dig down to replace foundations to be able to support a 2nd floor, which will almost certainly be the end of one, possibly two trees that my parents are quite attached to, and are 35 or so years old.
My parents had an estate agent round who suggested it could also devalue the price of their house. Almost certainly saffolding would have to go up which would wreak that part of the garden in which time, effort and money has been invested.
Flibble said:
Sounded like it was the wall forming the boundary at the bottom of the garden to me, which would make it a party wall.
Correct, there is no fence, the side wall of the garage is on boundary.Currently, the garage is totally hidden by the tress /plants.
No planning permission yet ...
Edited by mph999 on Monday 25th June 17:10
mph999 said:
Correct, there is no fence, the side wall of the garage is on boundary.
Currently, the garage is totally hidden by the tress /plants.
No planning permission yet ...
Does the wall form the boundary (i.e. straddle the boundary line) or is right up to the boundary line, but still contained within their property? If the latter there is no party wall issues. If the former they need to do all sorts of notifications etc.Currently, the garage is totally hidden by the tress /plants.
No planning permission yet ...
When the planning application goes in you need to be on top of it to ensure the side facing you is properly finished etc....this is the time to influence things, not afterwards. Use access for the build as a negotiating chip for nice finish/aesthetics.
Thank you all for the advice.
They do know the owners and are on friendly terms. They have spoken to them, and at first had no major concerns, but that was before they saw the plans, only then did the scale of things become apparent.
Step one is a letter of objection going into the council tomorrow, they will try and speak with the planning officer as well.
I don't know if the current wall is exactly on the boundary or a couple of inches short, but certainly there is not much in it.
I'm hoping a compromise can be reached, taking the build back by 1.5 from where the wall is currently would be more acceptable, perhaps. They already extended the other side of the house and want to put 5m on 'this' side. They actually have a very long garden, so could perhaps extend back, which wouldn't affect anyone.
We'll have to see how things go, it doesn't help that my dad has Parkinson's, one of the effects is an increase in anxiety - which certainly he has, he gets 'upset' over minor issues, so I'm actually generally concerned over what this might do to him.
They do know the owners and are on friendly terms. They have spoken to them, and at first had no major concerns, but that was before they saw the plans, only then did the scale of things become apparent.
Step one is a letter of objection going into the council tomorrow, they will try and speak with the planning officer as well.
I don't know if the current wall is exactly on the boundary or a couple of inches short, but certainly there is not much in it.
I'm hoping a compromise can be reached, taking the build back by 1.5 from where the wall is currently would be more acceptable, perhaps. They already extended the other side of the house and want to put 5m on 'this' side. They actually have a very long garden, so could perhaps extend back, which wouldn't affect anyone.
We'll have to see how things go, it doesn't help that my dad has Parkinson's, one of the effects is an increase in anxiety - which certainly he has, he gets 'upset' over minor issues, so I'm actually generally concerned over what this might do to him.
Where are the windows of this new house/development? I mean in relation to your mum and dad's home? Do they breach the distances allowed? Perhaps an architect friend could have a quick look?
Just for the objection letter. It's not just about loss of amenity (in their eyes) but if there's a technical breach, all the better.....
Just for the objection letter. It's not just about loss of amenity (in their eyes) but if there's a technical breach, all the better.....
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