35 mph on the M3, offence committed?

[Trevatanus]

Passed a Merc B Class on the M3 tonight between 3 and 2, I caught up with very quickly as I was traveling at motorway speed and slowed right down as I overtook, I reckon the driver was doing 35-40, she was having an animated discussion with her passenger, I assume this was driving without due care, or is there another offence that would cover it (if indeed it was an offence.

[Gavia]

There’s no minimum speed limit for motorways, so the speed is irrelevant. Arguably DWDC&A but only if they were driving poorly, having a heated debate may or may not meet that definition. If the driving was of a reasonable standard (apart from your opinion of their speed) then there’s no issue.

[Graveworm]

Gavia said:

There’s no minimum speed limit for motorways, so the speed is irrelevant. Arguably DWDC&A but only if they were driving poorly, having a heated debate may or may not meet that definition. If the driving was of a reasonable standard (apart from your opinion of their speed) then there’s no issue.

Driving too slowly for the road conditions can, in some circumstances be sufficient to make out an offence..Even if no minimum speed limit is in force. But 35-40 in the nearside lane of a free flowing motorway probably not. The arguing would have to have caused the driving to meet the threshold for an offence or show that it put them in a position where they couldn't properly control the car or see the road.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 7th August 22:35

[speedking31]

Gavia said:

There’s no minimum speed limit for motorways,

You're not allowed to stop on a motorway </pedant>

[Solocle]

Graveworm said:

Driving too slowly for the road conditions can, in some circumstances be sufficient to make out an offence..Even if no minimum speed limit is in force. But 35-40 in the nearside lane of a free flowing motorway probably not. The arguing would have to have caused the driving to meet the threshold for an offence or show that it put them in a position where they couldn't properly control the car or see the road.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 7th August 22:35

As a rule of thumb, I'd go with 50 as a minimum speed limit on the motorway. Obviously, it isn't enforceable.Why 50? It's the standard minimum in America on 70 interstates, and it also happens to be the speed that most HGVs travel at. We all know how HGVs have a propensity for elephant racing, a car going slower than HGVs on a free flowing motorway both forces HGVs into lane 2 and is unexpected.

[anonymous-user]

Trevatanus said:

Passed a Merc B Class on the M3 tonight between 3 and 2, I caught up with very quickly as I was traveling at motorway speed and slowed right down as I overtook, I reckon the driver was doing 35-40, she was having an animated discussion with her passenger, I assume this was driving without due care, or is there another offence that would cover it (if indeed it was an offence.

Driver wagging finger to passenger "Remember 70 isn't a target"

[Gavia]

speedking31 said:

Gavia said:

There’s no minimum speed limit for motorways,

You're not allowed to stop on a motorway </pedant>

I hope I don’t see you when there’s a traffic jam <\double pedant>

[Solocle]

Gavia said:

I hope I don’t see you when there’s a traffic jam <\double pedant>

No no no, he's fine in traffic jams. He sits 100 yards behind and first gear crawls all the time, obviously. If you can avoid stopping, you should, after all.</triple pedant>

[boyse7en]

Solocle said:

As a rule of thumb, I'd go with 50 as a minimum speed limit on the motorway. Obviously, it isn't enforceable.Why 50? It's the standard minimum in America on 70 interstates, and it also happens to be the speed that most HGVs travel at. We all know how HGVs have a propensity for elephant racing, a car going slower than HGVs on a free flowing motorway both forces HGVs into lane 2 and is unexpected.

How would that work for cranes, buses, maintenance vehicles, exceptional loads etc... all of which I see driving on the motorways at well under 50mph on a regular basis?

[Solocle]

boyse7en said:

How would that work for cranes, buses, maintenance vehicles, exceptional loads etc... all of which I see driving on the motorways at well under 50mph on a regular basis?

Cranes/exceptional loads etc are fairly obvious, so don't pose the same hazard as a car driving unexpectedly slowly. Anticipation is crucial. Although, vehicles going under 50 perhaps should consider taking the A roads. Tractors aren't allowed on the motorway, and some tractors can reach 40 mph.

[anonymous-user]

Gavia said:

There’s no minimum speed limit for motorways, so the speed is irrelevant. Arguably DWDC&A but only if they were driving poorly, having a heated debate may or may not meet that definition. If the driving was of a reasonable standard (apart from your opinion of their speed) then there’s no issue.

Worth noting it's perfectly possible for a s3 offence to be committed solely on the basis of driving too slowly on the motorway, even if the driving was otherwise ok.

s3 asks did the driving fall below the standard of the competent and carefully driver. Very arguable 35mph drops below that standard.

[Trevatanus]

Solocle said:

boyse7en said:

How would that work for cranes, buses, maintenance vehicles, exceptional loads etc... all of which I see driving on the motorways at well under 50mph on a regular basis?

Cranes/exceptional loads etc are fairly obvious, so don't pose the same hazard as a car driving unexpectedly slowly. Anticipation is crucial. Although, vehicles going under 50 perhaps should consider taking the A roads. Tractors aren't allowed on the motorway, and some tractors can reach 40 mph.

Exactly this. I approached the car at approx 70 mph, and had to to move across sharply to avoid rear ending it. I just simply did not expect to see a car travelling that slowly. A truck, crane or maintenance vehicle would be expected to drive slowly, and would quite possibly be displaying flashing lights.

[G13NVL]

Trevatanus said:

Solocle said:

boyse7en said:

How would that work for cranes, buses, maintenance vehicles, exceptional loads etc... all of which I see driving on the motorways at well under 50mph on a regular basis?

Cranes/exceptional loads etc are fairly obvious, so don't pose the same hazard as a car driving unexpectedly slowly. Anticipation is crucial. Although, vehicles going under 50 perhaps should consider taking the A roads. Tractors aren't allowed on the motorway, and some tractors can reach 40 mph.

Exactly this. I approached the car at approx 70 mph, and had to to move across sharply to avoid rear ending it. I just simply did not expect to see a car travelling that slowly. A truck, crane or maintenance vehicle would be expected to drive slowly, and would quite possibly be displaying flashing lights.

I drive cat 3 hgvs limited to 40mph on motorways and must have flashing beacons on for this reason, but it’s still common to see people darting out from behind last second as they haven’t seen you. Our cranes have to have the same beacons but also an escort van aswel.

[Biker 1]

A while ago I was exiting a service station on the M4 - to my horror, an elderly lady had stopped at the end of the slip road, presumably waiting for a gap in the traffic, so as to join the motorway. How nobody rear-ended her car, I have no idea....

[Psycho Warren]

Section 59 if not a careless driving.

Section 3 offence AND causing alarm/distress or harassment.

Certainly at 70mph coming across someone doing 35 could easily cause alarm. Same with dawdlers on country lanes.

[ghe13rte]

Trevatanus said:

Passed a Merc B Class on the M3 tonight between 3 and 2, I caught up with very quickly as I was traveling at motorway speed and slowed right down as I overtook, I reckon the driver was doing 35-40, she was having an animated discussion with her passenger, I assume this was driving without due care, or is there another offence that would cover it (if indeed it was an offence.

You seemed to have slowed for no good reason. Perhaps you and the other driver have committed the offence you think she has committed.

[Gavia]

Trevatanus said:

Exactly this. I approached the car at approx 70 mph, and had to to move across sharply to avoid rear ending it. I just simply did not expect to see a car travelling that slowly. A truck, crane or maintenance vehicle would be expected to drive slowly, and would quite possibly be displaying flashing lights.

That’s not very good driving either. Looking ahead and planning your next moves are something any competent driver should be doing as a matter of course.

[Trevatanus]

Gavia said:

Trevatanus said:

Exactly this. I approached the car at approx 70 mph, and had to to move across sharply to avoid rear ending it. I just simply did not expect to see a car travelling that slowly. A truck, crane or maintenance vehicle would be expected to drive slowly, and would quite possibly be displaying flashing lights.

That’s not very good driving either. Looking ahead and planning your next moves are something any competent driver should be doing as a matter of course.

Agreed, which is how I drive, and I saw that the car was driving slowly, just not expect it to be quite so slow.

[oyster]

Trevatanus said:

Solocle said:

boyse7en said:

How would that work for cranes, buses, maintenance vehicles, exceptional loads etc... all of which I see driving on the motorways at well under 50mph on a regular basis?

Cranes/exceptional loads etc are fairly obvious, so don't pose the same hazard as a car driving unexpectedly slowly. Anticipation is crucial. Although, vehicles going under 50 perhaps should consider taking the A roads. Tractors aren't allowed on the motorway, and some tractors can reach 40 mph.

Exactly this. I approached the car at approx 70 mph, and had to to move across sharply to avoid rear ending it. I just simply did not expect to see a car travelling that slowly. A truck, crane or maintenance vehicle would be expected to drive slowly, and would quite possibly be displaying flashing lights.

Seriously?

Do you nearly rear end parked cars when you're doing 30mph in residential areas?

I rather suspect you weren't paying much attention to the road ahead.

[raddog]

Biker 1 said:

A while ago I was exiting a service station on the M4 - to my horror, an elderly lady had stopped at the end of the slip road, presumably waiting for a gap in the traffic, so as to join the motorway. How nobody rear-ended her car, I have no idea....

That dotted line across the end of the slip road; it's a give way marking, technically she's doing nothing wrong. Having said that, I don't understand how people cant manage to match and merge in the length of a slip road....