Is this a highway?
Discussion
I am getting the runaround from my local council who seem unable to provide a real human being to talk to me.
I have an office next to a public car park. The car park has two entrances (and exits) the adjoin normal roads.
The signs for the car park make no mention of usage only to park and for many years locals have driven across the car park from one road to another.
So my question is - is this a highway or have we gained the right to use the land as if it was a highway?
I have an office next to a public car park. The car park has two entrances (and exits) the adjoin normal roads.
The signs for the car park make no mention of usage only to park and for many years locals have driven across the car park from one road to another.
So my question is - is this a highway or have we gained the right to use the land as if it was a highway?
speedyguy said:
Pool Bank car park off Palmerston Street Bollington.
You had a ticket off the warden for not parking in a marked bay by the recycling bins ?
No - I own the car park you can see on the left.You had a ticket off the warden for not parking in a marked bay by the recycling bins ?
Bollington Town Council tell me it's a highway Cheshire East won't comment. (But they have given me a case number - just no name, phone number or email address to contact)
edit - you obviously know the area, can you recall the car park ever being closed?
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 28th August 15:02
I don't ever recall it being closed.
I can ask a couple of pals who've lived there 30 years.
It doesn't show as Adopted Highway on the street Gazetteer if that makes any difference.
You will be aware as I am that CEH are fantastically incompetent (or should I say their private subcontractors Ringway Jacobs).
I am at a meeting with them in less than 2 weeks deep joy.
I can ask a couple of pals who've lived there 30 years.
It doesn't show as Adopted Highway on the street Gazetteer if that makes any difference.
You will be aware as I am that CEH are fantastically incompetent (or should I say their private subcontractors Ringway Jacobs).
I am at a meeting with them in less than 2 weeks deep joy.
Adoptions and highway records will be held by Cheshire direct. RJ won't have them. Its like saying the guy who digs the BT ducting also keeps the phone book up to date. RJ will not have the legal authority to say who owns what, what is Highway land etc - that will need to be a direct employee/representative of the highway authority - IME this is never ever sub'd out.
I know you were wanting to have a dig at RJ but in this case it's nowt to do with them.
I know you were wanting to have a dig at RJ but in this case it's nowt to do with them.
Thanks - I have a copy of the registered title.
I have been given a case number by Cheshire East but it's a black hole of a department where no one calls or writes back
As it stands at the moment I have access no problem but my contention is that it's a public right of way as the village has been using it as such for years.
I have been given a case number by Cheshire East but it's a black hole of a department where no one calls or writes back
As it stands at the moment I have access no problem but my contention is that it's a public right of way as the village has been using it as such for years.
OpulentBob said:
Adoptions and highway records will be held by Cheshire direct. RJ won't have them.
And that is the problem, fragmentation of services, you have CEH, RJ & Ansa all 'responsible' for different bits of the highway, the public see it as a farce.I hold my hand up to the information 'keeper'.
OpulentBob said:
RJ will not have the I know you were wanting to have a dig at RJ but in this case it's nowt to do with them.
Ok I hold my hand up but dealing with them frequently at all levels they are a shower of s
te who never get back to you on anything and are a bunch of KPI box tickers, (I suppose that will be blamed on the contract).Unfortunately that doesn't help the op.
Back to the Ops point I have never known the cut through to be shut (apart from possibly the other week when there were works going on within Palmerston street).
Eta from what I've seen and experienced CEH/RJ are very poor at asset ownership issues, they have denied ownership of things that have been proven to be theirs as it is not on their 'asset register'. They are in the process of trying to update their asset database presently, let's hope they are a bit more competent than previously.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 28th August 16:43
speedyguy said:
Ok I hold my hand up but dealing with them frequently at all levels they are a shower of ste who never get back to you on anything and are a bunch of KPI box tickers, (I suppose that will be blamed on the contract).
Unfortunately that doesn't help the op.
Back to the Ops point I have never known the cut through to be shut (apart from possibly the other week when there were works going on within Palmerston street).
So am I right in saying that if it's been used by the public for umpteen years and the council have done nothing to stop it then a public right of way exists?te who never get back to you on anything and are a bunch of KPI box tickers, (I suppose that will be blamed on the contract).Unfortunately that doesn't help the op.
Back to the Ops point I have never known the cut through to be shut (apart from possibly the other week when there were works going on within Palmerston street).
(there are no signs saying no public right of way nor barriers)
I concur with your views on Cheshire East in general - truly appalling to deal with over anything like this.
If it's never gated shut, by which I mean even for just 1 day a year, it could be argued to be public highway. Might also be worth looking at what status those double yellows have I.e. is there a proper TRO for them. If so it just adds further weight to it being a public highway
As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
Swervin_Mervin said:
If it's never gated shut, by which I mean even for just 1 day a year, it could be argued to be public highway. Might also be worth looking at what status those double yellows have I.e. is there a proper TRO for them. If so it just adds further weight to it being a public highway
As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
How would i find out about the yellow lines?As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
desolate said:
So am I right in saying that if it's been used by the public for umpteen years and the council have done nothing to stop it then a public right of way exists?
(there are no signs saying no public right of way nor barriers)
I wouldn't like to say without more digging but you've moved the goalposts a little bit since the first post from 'highway' to 'public right of way'(there are no signs saying no public right of way nor barriers)
But there is a fairly newish sign at the Palmerston street entrance but possibly not the Queen st entrance. (Depends when the google car last went down)
Just out of interest who owns the garages and what do the lease terms say? You may find that out pretty quickly/easily on the Bollington FB page it's full of oldies and history.
desolate said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
If it's never gated shut, by which I mean even for just 1 day a year, it could be argued to be public highway. Might also be worth looking at what status those double yellows have I.e. is there a proper TRO for them. If so it just adds further weight to it being a public highway
As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
How would i find out about the yellow lines?As for CEC Highways they're no better or worse than any other LHA nationally.
There isn't a sign in Queen Street and the sign you see there makes no mention of right of way.
The garages are owned by the council and the lease gives the right to pass over a portion of the car park to access the garage.
It's clear that Cheshire East Council dont think it's a public right of way / highway.
If I could speak to someone I could at least discuss it and get their opinion. If it was my land I would feel on very shaky ground trying to argue against the fact that a right of way had been established.
The garages are owned by the council and the lease gives the right to pass over a portion of the car park to access the garage.
It's clear that Cheshire East Council dont think it's a public right of way / highway.
If I could speak to someone I could at least discuss it and get their opinion. If it was my land I would feel on very shaky ground trying to argue against the fact that a right of way had been established.
Swervin_Mervin said:
I'd say it's highly doubtful that they'd give anything away in a conversation. LHA officers are rightly very guarded!
What's the motivation for wanting to find out?
I just want to speak to someone! or get an acknowledgement of my correspondence other than a case number.What's the motivation for wanting to find out?
I own the office on the left of the picture and for various reasons didn't realise we have a licence to access the car park.
I am just exploring whether the licence is required as it could have a material impact on the value of the property.
In any event I need to speak to them about the 3 licence we have (this one that I didn't know about and two others that I did) as they are all wrong.
I had the same setup at my last house in Southampton. My double garage opened up onto a council owned, council maintained road.
Whilst the road met all the tests of being an adopted highway, the Council refused to accept that it was and charged £50 a year for a vehicular access licence. I could park in the road opposite my garage for free (like all the twunts that thought nothing about blocking my access/egress), but if I wanted to cross my property boundary in a car I had to pay.
For £50 a year, I couldn't be arsed to fight. When the house sold, the sale did stall whilst the buyer obtained confirmation from the council that they would continue to issue a license. The buyers conveyancer wasn't very good, kept coming to me for an assurance on a license from the council. In the end I did the donkey work and found the person in the council that the conveyancer needed to talk to.
This took about two weeks to get sorted. It wasn't the long pole, so it didn't actually matter. Sale price was unaffected, £50 a year is peanuts when compared to a £200K + property.
I did the viewings myself, and when I showed the buyer around the double garage, I explained the situation with the license. My thinking was, if it's going to put the buyer off, may as well weed that buyer out right at the start of the process rather than months later.
TLDR: Tell your prospective buyer at the viewing. Expect a little hassle satisfying the buyer's conveyancer. A moderate license fee does not affect house sale price.
Whilst the road met all the tests of being an adopted highway, the Council refused to accept that it was and charged £50 a year for a vehicular access licence. I could park in the road opposite my garage for free (like all the twunts that thought nothing about blocking my access/egress), but if I wanted to cross my property boundary in a car I had to pay.
For £50 a year, I couldn't be arsed to fight. When the house sold, the sale did stall whilst the buyer obtained confirmation from the council that they would continue to issue a license. The buyers conveyancer wasn't very good, kept coming to me for an assurance on a license from the council. In the end I did the donkey work and found the person in the council that the conveyancer needed to talk to.
This took about two weeks to get sorted. It wasn't the long pole, so it didn't actually matter. Sale price was unaffected, £50 a year is peanuts when compared to a £200K + property.
I did the viewings myself, and when I showed the buyer around the double garage, I explained the situation with the license. My thinking was, if it's going to put the buyer off, may as well weed that buyer out right at the start of the process rather than months later.
TLDR: Tell your prospective buyer at the viewing. Expect a little hassle satisfying the buyer's conveyancer. A moderate license fee does not affect house sale price.
mikeveal said:
I had the same setup at my last house in Southampton. My double garage opened up onto a council owned, council maintained road.
Whilst the road met all the tests of being an adopted highway, the Council refused to accept that it was and charged £50 a year for a vehicular access licence. I could park in the road opposite my garage for free (like all the twunts that thought nothing about blocking my access/egress), but if I wanted to cross my property boundary in a car I had to pay.
For £50 a year, I couldn't be arsed to fight. When the house sold, the sale did stall whilst the buyer obtained confirmation from the council that they would continue to issue a license. The buyers conveyancer wasn't very good, kept coming to me for an assurance on a license from the council. In the end I did the donkey work and found the person in the council that the conveyancer needed to talk to.
This took about two weeks to get sorted. It wasn't the long pole, so it didn't actually matter. Sale price was unaffected, £50 a year is peanuts when compared to a £200K + property.
I did the viewings myself, and when I showed the buyer around the double garage, I explained the situation with the license. My thinking was, if it's going to put the buyer off, may as well weed that buyer out right at the start of the process rather than months later.
TLDR: Tell your prospective buyer at the viewing. Expect a little hassle satisfying the buyer's conveyancer. A moderate license fee does not affect house sale price.
According to the local estate agent a parking space is worth 10-15k. There are 8 apartments going in the building so we are looking at a fairly significant amount of $$.Whilst the road met all the tests of being an adopted highway, the Council refused to accept that it was and charged £50 a year for a vehicular access licence. I could park in the road opposite my garage for free (like all the twunts that thought nothing about blocking my access/egress), but if I wanted to cross my property boundary in a car I had to pay.
For £50 a year, I couldn't be arsed to fight. When the house sold, the sale did stall whilst the buyer obtained confirmation from the council that they would continue to issue a license. The buyers conveyancer wasn't very good, kept coming to me for an assurance on a license from the council. In the end I did the donkey work and found the person in the council that the conveyancer needed to talk to.
This took about two weeks to get sorted. It wasn't the long pole, so it didn't actually matter. Sale price was unaffected, £50 a year is peanuts when compared to a £200K + property.
I did the viewings myself, and when I showed the buyer around the double garage, I explained the situation with the license. My thinking was, if it's going to put the buyer off, may as well weed that buyer out right at the start of the process rather than months later.
TLDR: Tell your prospective buyer at the viewing. Expect a little hassle satisfying the buyer's conveyancer. A moderate license fee does not affect house sale price.
We already have licences in place but they need to be altered and it's now been WEEKS and I have not been able to speak to 1 person who can assist.
desolate said:
According to the local estate agent a parking space is worth 10-15k. There are 8 apartments going in the building so we are looking at a fairly significant amount of $$.
We already have licences in place but they need to be altered and it's now been WEEKS and I have not been able to speak to 1 person who can assist.
Have you spoken to your CE councillors (not Town councillors) to try and break the impasse/speed things up. We already have licences in place but they need to be altered and it's now been WEEKS and I have not been able to speak to 1 person who can assist.
http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.as...
http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.as...
You know how rabidly anti development the yokels are though and the parking in 'the historic mill village' is an ongoing comedy with the residents who do seem to have an inbred mememe attitude and are resistant to change.
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