ID'ing to the police
Discussion
Just been watching a couple of Youtube videos where the police have stopped members of the public.
The member of public has refused to identify.
The police then search them under terrorism act (section 43?)
Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
(as one of them said just because it says Canon on my camera doesn't mean it is a weapon of mass destruction).
The member of public has refused to identify.
The police then search them under terrorism act (section 43?)
Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
(as one of them said just because it says Canon on my camera doesn't mean it is a weapon of mass destruction).
voyds9 said:
The police then search them under terrorism act (section 43?)
Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/secti...Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
Terrorism Act 2000 said:
43 Search of persons.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
I'd got as far as that but nothing there says it is OK to search wallet for identification
but also nothing says it is wrong to find and use that information when, say, looking for phone numbers of other terrorists which may be contained in the wallet.
It could be argued that your name could be obtained to check against lists of known suspects.
but also nothing says it is wrong to find and use that information when, say, looking for phone numbers of other terrorists which may be contained in the wallet.
It could be argued that your name could be obtained to check against lists of known suspects.
TooMany2cvs said:
voyds9 said:
The police then search them under terrorism act (section 43?)
Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/secti...Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
Terrorism Act 2000 said:
43 Search of persons.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
Graveworm said:
TooMany2cvs said:
voyds9 said:
The police then search them under terrorism act (section 43?)
Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/secti...Does this give them the right to search your wallet for identification?
Terrorism Act 2000 said:
43 Search of persons.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
(1)A constable may stop and search a person whom he reasonably suspects to be a terrorist to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(2)A constable may search a person arrested under section 41 to discover whether he has in his possession anything which may constitute evidence that he is a terrorist.
(3) (Repealed by POFA2012)
(4)A constable may seize and retain anything which he discovers in the course of a search of a person under subsection (1) or (2) and which he reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4A)Subsection (4B) applies if a constable, in exercising the power under subsection (1) to stop a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist, stops a vehicle (see section 116(2)).
(4B)The constable—
(a)may search the vehicle and anything in or on it to discover whether there is anything which may constitute evidence that the person concerned is a terrorist, and
(b)may seize and retain anything which the constable—
(i)discovers in the course of such a search, and
(ii)reasonably suspects may constitute evidence that the person is a terrorist.
(4C)Nothing in subsection (4B) confers a power to search any person but the power to search in that subsection is in addition to the power in subsection (1) to search a person whom the constable reasonably suspects to be a terrorist.]
(5)A person who has the powers of a constable in one Part of the United Kingdom may exercise a power under this section in any Part of the United Kingdom.
Cold said:
Did you ask them why they thought you were a potential terrorist?
This was 2008 and I was carrying 7k in cash having just sold a watch. Everything was above board but I didn't want to ruffle any feathers so I didn't say anything. I did mention the cash to the cop and showed him the bill of sale showing who had given me cash (biggest west end watch dealer). It was part of some operation at one of the central London tube stations. Didn't bother me tbh because I'm pretty sure I was stopped because they need to stop a certain number of people. Never been stopped before or since.
Cold said:
Did you ask them why they thought you were a potential terrorist?
As I said under S47A there is no requirement to think that they were a terrorist, it's about the area. If an ACC/Commander or above authorises it then any person or vehicle can be searched in that area. It's less often used now but at one point it was pretty near continuous for most of Central London, many city centres and most major train stations. If you are not driving or riding a bike and they don't think you have committed an offence then 99% of the time there is no requirement to identify yourself to police. (Some obscure exceptions like holders of firearms/shotgun certificates, pedlars etc) As has been said, they can't "Unsee" it if they see a name and address on correspondence found during a search. They would likely record this as part of the search record and may conduct checks using it if appropriate.
Edited by Graveworm on Sunday 23 September 22:57
MrJuice said:
It was part of some operation at one of the central London tube stations. Didn't bother me tbh because I'm pretty sure I was stopped because they need to stop a certain number of people. Never been stopped before or since.
Similar story from a colleague at work, who was given the impression that he had been "pulled" for the sake of statistics / satisfying quotashttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZhR7WrOXoaQohsOA...
I've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
I've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
chainy said:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZhR7WrOXoaQohsOA...
I've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
Best bet when dealing with life’s winners like that is to ignore them. I've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
They hate it because they don’t get the attention they want.
usually its those freeman type lunatics or conspiracy nut types who refuse to give basic information to the cops.
Funnily enough, if you act like a t
t you will be treated like one. not surprising really.
In 99.999999999999% of these youtube videos, had they just answered the coppers sensible questions politely, they would have been on thier way no problems, no drama. However they wanted to create drama from the outset to somehow support thier agenda.
Funnily enough, if you act like a t
t you will be treated like one. not surprising really.In 99.999999999999% of these youtube videos, had they just answered the coppers sensible questions politely, they would have been on thier way no problems, no drama. However they wanted to create drama from the outset to somehow support thier agenda.
If someone refuses to give their name to a copper then there is reasonable suspicion that they are doing something that the shouldn't. Or they're just a bellend trying to be awkward.
Be polite & courteous if necessary get the badge number and complain later if you're treated badly. It'll make the situation go away much quicker and also make it less likely your rights are infringed further.
Coppers have a hard job, see a lot of stuff we wouldn't want to and generally come running when we desperately need them. No point being a pain in the backside to them.
Be polite & courteous if necessary get the badge number and complain later if you're treated badly. It'll make the situation go away much quicker and also make it less likely your rights are infringed further.
Coppers have a hard job, see a lot of stuff we wouldn't want to and generally come running when we desperately need them. No point being a pain in the backside to them.
chainy said:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZhR7WrOXoaQohsOA...
I've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
What a dogs tool he isI've just been watching this old guys vids. Basically he films Copers coming and going from police stations and makes himself as awkward as possible when the police start asking him questions. Seems he is quids in with the way some of the cops have handled him..
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