How does this scam work ?

[semisane]

arrived home last night to find 2 letters from HSBC

The first was welcoming me to my new current account
The second was a new credit card for said account

Having not applied for this, I called them and they have cancelled.

I was assured the account could not have been activated until someone had verified the details at an HSBC bank.

How do the scammers get any money if they cannot take my passport or driving licence to get the account opened?

J

[gamefreaks]

The only way I can see this working is if they have someone at the bank or post office to intercept the mail.

[Ajax Treesdown]

I had this with a mobile phone about 10 years ago. Someone using my name and address had ordered a top of the range phone and the most expensive contract online and it was to be delivered to my home address. The first i knew about it was when the neighbour handed me a parcel as i came in from work. I knew i hadn't ordered anything and when i looked at the box it stated on the address label that if no one was in the courier was to call the mobile number listed on the label and someone would come and pick it up. I can only assume the courier didn't do that as he saw my neighbour in their kitchen window and passed it to them to sign for and keep for me till i was in. I must admit i was so tempted to ring the number but wasn't so keen on anyone turning up and punching my face in for the parcel!! :-)

I presume whoever was waiting for the parcel were around somewhere waiting for the phone call to intercept the parcel and i would have been none the wiser about it until the bailiffs called at my door asking for payment for unpaid monthly bills that were going to someones email address.

I had a real problem getting everything sorted with the phone company as no one wanted to take the phone back after spending hours on the phone to their fraud department. I ended up going into a shop about 2 months later with a chain of emails and dumping on the desk saying i want nothing more to do with it. Never heard anything else after that. The real ball ache was the cancelling of my bank cards etc as wasn't sure how and if they had used details to obtain the contract in the first place and continually checking my credit report for any unusual activity for months afterwards.

[jondude]

It is indeed my worry more and more scams have insider help.

I returned to the UK after many years abroad so was a blank canvas, unknown so to speak. I subscribed to Virgin Media internet and the very next morning I was called from 'VM' with a better deal. The guy knew all my details and of course the timing of the call did have me at first thinking it had to be VM.


Asking for my password and bank details was the giveaway but apparently quite a few have fallen to this scam and when they complained to Virgin were simply told ' we would never ask for your password or bank details'.

[7795]

semisane said:

arrived home last night to find 2 letters from HSBC

The first was welcoming me to my new current account
The second was a new credit card for said account

Having not applied for this, I called them and they have cancelled.

I was assured the account could not have been activated until someone had verified the details at an HSBC bank.

How do the scammers get any money if they cannot take my passport or driving licence to get the account opened?

J

Wait for the call and they will send DHL round to collect the card etc...

They call you saying they are the bank, you hang up and call back the number on the back of the card, they dio not hang up and they stay with an open line. You think you dialled the bank, they say give the card to DHL (or a branded courier company), bingo...

It's well known for this or similar to happen...

[EU_Foreigner]

Except that the trick does not work with mobile phones ...

[outnumbered]

In case they try anything else, might be worth registering yourself with CIFAS:

https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/identity-thef...

This should stop them taking out further financial products in your name, as the institutions are supposed to check the CIFAS list first.

[The Mad Monk]

7795 said:

Wait for the call and they will send DHL round to collect the card etc...

They call you saying they are the bank, you hang up and call back the number on the back of the card, they dio not hang up and they stay with an open line. You think you dialled the bank, they say give the card to DHL (or a branded courier company), bingo...

It's well known for this or similar to happen...

You phone them back on a different phone.

[Dogwatch]

The Mad Monk said:

7795 said:

Wait for the call and they will send DHL round to collect the card etc...

They call you saying they are the bank, you hang up and call back the number on the back of the card, they dio not hang up and they stay with an open line. You think you dialled the bank, they say give the card to DHL (or a branded courier company), bingo...

It's well known for this or similar to happen...

You phone them back on a different phone.

Indeed, but surely their objective is to get the victim in a panic, especially if they are on their own, so the lack of a dialling tone gets overlooked.
I think BT have a lot to answer for here. They could detect that someone is dialling on an open line and put out a warning on the lines of "The other party have not replaced their receiver. Please listen for the dialling tone before redialling".

[lyonspride]

Ajax Treesdown said:

I had this with a mobile phone about 10 years ago. Someone using my name and address had ordered a top of the range phone and the most expensive contract online and it was to be delivered to my home address. The first i knew about it was when the neighbour handed me a parcel as i came in from work. I knew i hadn't ordered anything and when i looked at the box it stated on the address label that if no one was in the courier was to call the mobile number listed on the label and someone would come and pick it up. I can only assume the courier didn't do that as he saw my neighbour in their kitchen window and passed it to them to sign for and keep for me till i was in. I must admit i was so tempted to ring the number but wasn't so keen on anyone turning up and punching my face in for the parcel!! :-)

I presume whoever was waiting for the parcel were around somewhere waiting for the phone call to intercept the parcel and i would have been none the wiser about it until the bailiffs called at my door asking for payment for unpaid monthly bills that were going to someones email address.

I had a real problem getting everything sorted with the phone company as no one wanted to take the phone back after spending hours on the phone to their fraud department. I ended up going into a shop about 2 months later with a chain of emails and dumping on the desk saying i want nothing more to do with it. Never heard anything else after that. The real ball ache was the cancelling of my bank cards etc as wasn't sure how and if they had used details to obtain the contract in the first place and continually checking my credit report for any unusual activity for months afterwards.

They order the phone in your name, then someone in a courier uniform turns up and says it was a mistake, they take the phone and sell it, the phone company then comes after you for the bill.

[Echo66]

There was a similar scam about 20-25 years ago that was bent posties intercepting cards - they'd pocket the card from the envelope - then intercept the follow up letter with the PIN.
Sell on both items for about £200-£300. Was offered this a few times by a lad I'd been to school with the 80s who went into the PO.
Idea would be that as the two items would generally arrive within 2-3 days of each other, you'd have enough time with the card allowing for a 300 a day withdrawal limit to rack up 4-5 days of ATM cash until the card applicant started wondering where their new card was & call the CC company.

[Oakey]

jondude said:

It is indeed my worry more and more scams have insider help.

It's how icemanbops started out his criminal empire

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12068306.tax-d...

[motco]

I came home on one occasion to find more than £300 worth of various size women's clothing on my doorstep. A con merchant had opened a credit account with someone like GUS in my name using my address and date of birth only. They rang the despatch people at the last minute to change the delivery address to their own and all I would have known would be debt collectors knocking on my door. Unluckily for them they rang too late for it to be changed and as far as I know they were nabbed at the intended delivery address. It is scandalous that mail order houses will open credit accounts willy-nilly on so little personal information.

[stemll]

Dogwatch said:

The Mad Monk said:

7795 said:

Wait for the call and they will send DHL round to collect the card etc...

They call you saying they are the bank, you hang up and call back the number on the back of the card, they dio not hang up and they stay with an open line. You think you dialled the bank, they say give the card to DHL (or a branded courier company), bingo...

It's well known for this or similar to happen...

You phone them back on a different phone.

Indeed, but surely their objective is to get the victim in a panic, especially if they are on their own, so the lack of a dialling tone gets overlooked.
I think BT have a lot to answer for here. They could detect that someone is dialling on an open line and put out a warning on the lines of "The other party have not replaced their receiver. Please listen for the dialling tone before redialling".

Doesn't work any more unless you call back almost instantly. BT SIN351 section 7.1.2.

https://www.btplc.com/sinet/sins/pdf/351v4p9.pdf

7.1.2. By The Called Terminal
When a call is ended by the called terminal, the BT network interface will detect an off-line condition (see section 3.1 Off-line d.c. Condition) and initiate a time-out process lasting between two and three seconds. After the time-out period has expired, network initiated clearing (see section 7.2 Network Initiated Clearing) is provided to the calling terminal.

So, the call is cleared 2-3 seconds after the called party terminates (Pre 2014 it was 2 seconds to 3 minutes). You'd be hugely unlucky to get caught by this and the chances of the scammers getting what they want this way is too small.

[Andy 308GTB]

Echo66 said:

There was a similar scam about 20-25 years ago that was bent posties intercepting cards - they'd pocket the card from the envelope - then intercept the follow up letter with the PIN.
Sell on both items for about £200-£300. Was offered this a few times by a lad I'd been to school with the 80s who went into the PO.
Idea would be that as the two items would generally arrive within 2-3 days of each other, you'd have enough time with the card allowing for a 300 a day withdrawal limit to rack up 4-5 days of ATM cash until the card applicant started wondering where their new card was & call the CC company.

What he said.
This was rife years ago. People would turn up at pubs with briefcases of them.
The going rate was 10% of the Credit Card limit. The buyer of the card would get down to the closest retail park a.s.a.p., buy stuff that was simple to shift (power tools and general electrical goods etc.) and aim to max the card out within a couple of hours.

[7795]

stemll said:

Dogwatch said:

The Mad Monk said:

7795 said:

Wait for the call and they will send DHL round to collect the card etc...

They call you saying they are the bank, you hang up and call back the number on the back of the card, they dio not hang up and they stay with an open line. You think you dialled the bank, they say give the card to DHL (or a branded courier company), bingo...

It's well known for this or similar to happen...

You phone them back on a different phone.

Indeed, but surely their objective is to get the victim in a panic, especially if they are on their own, so the lack of a dialling tone gets overlooked.
I think BT have a lot to answer for here. They could detect that someone is dialling on an open line and put out a warning on the lines of "The other party have not replaced their receiver. Please listen for the dialling tone before redialling".

Doesn't work any more unless you call back almost instantly. BT SIN351 section 7.1.2.

https://www.btplc.com/sinet/sins/pdf/351v4p9.pdf

7.1.2. By The Called Terminal
When a call is ended by the called terminal, the BT network interface will detect an off-line condition (see section 3.1 Off-line d.c. Condition) and initiate a time-out process lasting between two and three seconds. After the time-out period has expired, network initiated clearing (see section 7.2 Network Initiated Clearing) is provided to the calling terminal.

So, the call is cleared 2-3 seconds after the called party terminates (Pre 2014 it was 2 seconds to 3 minutes). You'd be hugely unlucky to get caught by this and the chances of the scammers getting what they want this way is too small.

“When a call is ended by the called terminal“...here is the weakness in the new system. The calling party will always endeavour to release the call before the called party.

This is not in place to combat fraud, it is in place to stop hanged calls and billing issues.

ETA..if the call is routed over VoIP then it won’t work at all. These calls will be mostly originated in an overseas call centre and so at best you’ll have a spoofed number and just a spoofed IP address. The number will not take incoming calls, the will be released on a sip 503 or similar.

Try calling back a sales call that shows what looks to be a valid A-number on your phone. Dead number....

Edited by 7795 on Friday 26th October 11:38

[semisane]

Hi all, thanks for your responses.

We seemed to have drifted away from my particular circumstances.

My understanding is that the account cannot be 'activated' until the scammers visit an HSBC branch and validate the application with 'my' passport or driving licence......

SS

[gamefreaks]

semisane said:

Hi all, thanks for your responses.

We seemed to have drifted away from my particular circumstances.

My understanding is that the account cannot be 'activated' until the scammers visit an HSBC branch and validate the application with 'my' passport or driving licence......

SS

Is that really the case? Certainly when I’ve opened accounts, they verify your identity using credit reference agencies.

When your card turns up, you just ring the automated line to activate it and it’s ready to use.

It’s also quite possible that the credit card can be activated independently of the current account.

[semisane]

thanks gamefreaks - yes perhaps the bank account requires more vigour due to money laundering - this seems to be the chain of events required for the CC fraud :

the perpetrator needs to intercept the letter re opening bank account
they then need to intercept the letter containing the credit card and ...
finally intercept the letter I received last night with the CC pin number ?

SS

[gamefreaks]

I’d make an awful criminal mastermind but I think you’d only need the credit card.

You don’t need the pin or the bank account.

Just activate the card and milk it using online transactions.