Pick up truck and speed limits

[AMTony]

Dont know if this has been discussed but having recently purchased a Nissan Navara, a mate of mine was telling me that the speed limit for the truck was 60 on a dual carriageway and 50 on a single road where the max speed limit signs were displayed.

The truck I think has an unladen weight below 2040kg and so car speed limits apply but on inverstigation it appears that many pickups are not as lucky and do actually fall into the lower speed limits.

Examples are where a V6 Ameroc has the 10mph lower limit than its counterparts, all Toyota pickups are also in the lower speed catagory!

Just hope Navaras are in the higher catagory but its hard to get the official unlaiden weight.

Anyone else heard of this or been done for speeding in one?

[warch]

Thats a new one on me.

I thought it was only 2WD pickups that were speed limited.

[SS2.]

AMTony said:

Anyone else heard of this or been done for speeding in one?

Crops up every week or so.

DPV definition said:

Dual purpose vehicles

A `Dual purpose vehicle' is one that is constructed or adapted for the carriage of both passengers and goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2,040 kg; and which either-

(i) is so constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine, is, or by the use of the appropriate controls can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or-

(ii) satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely-

(A) the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(B) the area to the rear of the driver's seat must-

(i) be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers, and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered backrests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle;and

(ii) be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an aggregate area of not less than 1,850cm2 on each side and not less than 770cm2 at the rear; and-

(C ) the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in the first paragraph of item (B) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the backrests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

[scorcher]

How many pages is this one going to hit?

[warch]

So no UK market 4x4 crew cab pickup is speed restricted then?

[SS2.]

warch said:

So no UK market 4x4 crew cab pickup is speed restricted then?

They will be if their unladen weight exceeds 2040kg.

[Mammasaid]

SS2. said:

warch said:

So no UK market 4x4 crew cab pickup is speed restricted then?

They will be if their unladen weight exceeds 2040kg.

I think some versions of the Ranger Super Cab are lardy enough;

[warch]

I note commercial Defender 110/130s are also in the 2 ton category, but most Jap crew cabs are about 1.9 tons. It's interesting how 4x4s have podged out, my Land Rover 88 only weighs 1.3 tons and the long wheel base equivalent only 1.5 tons.

[cologne2792]

Mammasaid said:

SS2. said:

warch said:

So no UK market 4x4 crew cab pickup is speed restricted then?

They will be if their unladen weight exceeds 2040kg.

I think some versions of the Ranger Super Cab are lardy enough;

Currently only some of the Super Cabs qualify for Dual Purpose exemption.
This is a fairly new situation though. All the older Rangers (assuming 4wd and not single cabs) were exempt until the facelift of the current shape a year or so ago and the weight just nudged up enough to get a load of people on the Ranger Forums busted for doing what they used to do quite legally.
My rather elderly Mk2 Ranger 4x4 Super Cab weighs in 1.8 tonnes.

[BlueMR2]

IIRC having a factory hard top cover at the back is allocated a specific weight, often higher than the actual weight which can push the vehicles over 2040kg on paper even if not in the physical sense.

[dave4959]

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/nav...

Details it as 2001-2012kg. One will be auto, one will be manual.

Minimum kerb weight. Therefore car speed limits surely.

Seems daft that in theory the choice of a gearbox could push you over the 2040kg mark.

With the hard tops, are they an "accessory" and removable, therefore not counted maybe?

[SS2.]

dave4959 said:

With the hard tops, are they an "accessory" and removable, therefore not counted maybe?

Road Traffic Act 1988 said:

190. Method of calculating weight of motor vehicles and trailers.

(1) This section applies for the purposes of the Traffic Acts and of any other enactments relating to the use of motor vehicles or trailers on roads.

(2) The weight unladen of a vehicle or trailer shall be taken to be the weight of the vehicle or trailer—

(a) inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but

(b) exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

[cologne2792]

dave4959 said:

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/nav...

Details it as 2001-2012kg. One will be auto, one will be manual.

Minimum kerb weight. Therefore car speed limits surely.

Seems daft that in theory the choice of a gearbox could push you over the 2040kg mark.

With the hard tops, are they an "accessory" and removable, therefore not counted maybe?

In the case of the current Rangers those that qualify for exemption subsequently don't if they're fitted with an Auto Box - the poverty spec model may just be under the 2,040 kg though. It's a daft law that needs sorting especially as a 2.7 tonne Discovery 3 is exempt.

[dave4959]

SS2. said:

dave4959 said:

With the hard tops, are they an "accessory" and removable, therefore not counted maybe?

Road Traffic Act 1988 said:

190. Method of calculating weight of motor vehicles and trailers.

(1) This section applies for the purposes of the Traffic Acts and of any other enactments relating to the use of motor vehicles or trailers on roads.

(2) The weight unladen of a vehicle or trailer shall be taken to be the weight of the vehicle or trailer—

(a) inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but

(b) exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.

Fair enough.

Further googling suggests that the unladen weight is less than the kerb weight.

It's a bit of a mess isn't it. Without the hard top, they are definitely under the 2040kg. With it, not so sure

[JM]

cologne2792 said:

dave4959 said:

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/nav...

Details it as 2001-2012kg. One will be auto, one will be manual.

Minimum kerb weight. Therefore car speed limits surely.

Seems daft that in theory the choice of a gearbox could push you over the 2040kg mark.

With the hard tops, are they an "accessory" and removable, therefore not counted maybe?

In the case of the current Rangers those that qualify for exemption subsequently don't if they're fitted with an Auto Box - the poverty spec model may just be under the 2,040 kg though. It's a daft law that needs sorting especially as a 2.7 tonne Discovery 3 is exempt.

A commercial Discovery 3 (or 4) isn't exempt.

At least in theory, I haven't been stopped or 'done' by average speed cameras in mine.

[dave4959]

By my understanding EU definition of kerb weight includes 75kg driver/luggage + fuel. Therefore, with the Navara take that off the 2012kg kerb weight. Is down to 1937kg. Even if you then add back on the top box you're not going to be over the 2040kg.
So, therefore Navara is bound by car speed limits. The Ranger, VW and X Class are heavier and therefore should abide by the 50/60/70 van speed limits.

[spaximus]

I am yet again going through this at the moment. Two years ago Nissan sent me an email saying mine was definitely subject to car limits. Then the transport manager sends out an email to all of us with these saying no they are limited as a van.

Now on the Nissan technical site the weight of nine is 1953 kg but on the V5 it does not show that, instead it shows a Mass in Service of 2161kg, for which no one seems to have a definitive answer to how that relates to the 1953kg it is listed with in the technical specs.

I have asked Nissan again for their view as you would think they would know. What has prompted this renewed interest it appears there is a story going around that there are new cameras which can tell what if it is overweight. I am assuming that someone has got a bit smarter with Dual purpose vehicles and is looking at this then sending out tickets for excess speed over the van limits.

All a bit of a farce really and searching various websites gives differing views,

[AMTony]

spaximus said:

I am yet again going through this at the moment. Two years ago Nissan sent me an email saying mine was definitely subject to car limits. Then the transport manager sends out an email to all of us with these saying no they are limited as a van.

Now on the Nissan technical site the weight of nine is 1953 kg but on the V5 it does not show that, instead it shows a Mass in Service of 2161kg, for which no one seems to have a definitive answer to how that relates to the 1953kg it is listed with in the technical specs.

I have asked Nissan again for their view as you would think they would know. What has prompted this renewed interest it appears there is a story going around that there are new cameras which can tell what if it is overweight. I am assuming that someone has got a bit smarter with Dual purpose vehicles and is looking at this then sending out tickets for excess speed over the van limits.

All a bit of a farce really and searching various websites gives differing views,

This is exactly what I have found. I had tech sheets from Nissan but they differ from the V5. They say mass in running order is 2063 kg and the actual mass of the vehicle is 2173 kg. This is for my actual chassis number.
I have requested the unlaiden weight as this is the number used by the law in order to determine the lawful speed limits of the vehicle.
With the popularity of pick up trucks of late, we all know why if a company vehicle, I can see the revenue having a real result in terms of filling the coffers at the drivers expense.
Just glad I didn’t get a V6 Ameroc as VW do list the unlaiden weights!

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

I've got a Ranger & I observe van speed limits. It really makes no difference at all.

[spaximus]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

I've got a Ranger & I observe van speed limits. It really makes no difference at all.

For a Ranger that is correct. The issue for me is the manufacturer says one thing, the V5 appears to have a different method to decide weight and for the last two years I have been driving at car limits, not had a problem, but is that luck?

There appears to be no easy way to get a definitive answer