Previous owner wants a copy of new V5?
Discussion
Evening all,
My apologies if this is long winded, but I don't want to miss anything out that may be relevant.
I bought a used car privately 2 months ago.
Filled in my details on the V5 for the owner to send off to DVLA.
I told him he could transfer ownership instantly online these days, but he was very old fashioned and insisting on sending the V5 to DVLA the old way.
He gave me the green keeper slip.
I didn't bother taxing the car using the green slip for a about 2.5 weeks as I was having some custom work carried out on the vehicle before I would start using it.
I did then tax the car using the slip, and everything went though fine.
The new V5 took slightly longer than expected to arrive, probably 3+ weeks.
I then tried to put a private plate on the car using the new V5 and DVLA online service, and it wouldn't go though.
DVLA told me on the phone that 'some cars have issues' that means online system doesn't work for them, but wouldn't elaborate further.
They asked me to send my new V5 and Plate retention certificate etc to DVLA and they would transfer the plate manually.
After yet a couple more weeks, the V5 arrived back again with the private plate on it.
I have now just received a phone call from the previous owner who has told me he has received a letter and an £80 fine from DVLA regarding the vehicle.
He was like the 'vague news' on the phone and was muttering about the fine being for time taken to register the new keeper, the vehicle being untaxed for too long after I bought it, and also DVLA claiming the vehicle was currently 'unregistered'.
Frankly I have no idea what he is going on about.
He says he wants me to email him photos of my V5 so that he can show the DVLA that the car was transferred to me correctly on the date specified, and that there isn't an issue (and I presume to avoid paying the fine).
What say you all of this strange matter?
My apologies if this is long winded, but I don't want to miss anything out that may be relevant.
I bought a used car privately 2 months ago.
Filled in my details on the V5 for the owner to send off to DVLA.
I told him he could transfer ownership instantly online these days, but he was very old fashioned and insisting on sending the V5 to DVLA the old way.
He gave me the green keeper slip.
I didn't bother taxing the car using the green slip for a about 2.5 weeks as I was having some custom work carried out on the vehicle before I would start using it.
I did then tax the car using the slip, and everything went though fine.
The new V5 took slightly longer than expected to arrive, probably 3+ weeks.
I then tried to put a private plate on the car using the new V5 and DVLA online service, and it wouldn't go though.
DVLA told me on the phone that 'some cars have issues' that means online system doesn't work for them, but wouldn't elaborate further.
They asked me to send my new V5 and Plate retention certificate etc to DVLA and they would transfer the plate manually.
After yet a couple more weeks, the V5 arrived back again with the private plate on it.
I have now just received a phone call from the previous owner who has told me he has received a letter and an £80 fine from DVLA regarding the vehicle.
He was like the 'vague news' on the phone and was muttering about the fine being for time taken to register the new keeper, the vehicle being untaxed for too long after I bought it, and also DVLA claiming the vehicle was currently 'unregistered'.
Frankly I have no idea what he is going on about.
He says he wants me to email him photos of my V5 so that he can show the DVLA that the car was transferred to me correctly on the date specified, and that there isn't an issue (and I presume to avoid paying the fine).
What say you all of this strange matter?
Lord Marylebone said:
The new V5 took slightly longer than expected to arrive, probably 3+ weeks.
There's the clue....he forgot to send off the V5 with the Green section 6 correctly filled out for a week or two.Not your responsibility to do that, not your issue. As you say, he could have done it online in an instant.
You've now received a V5C for that car with your private plate on it, so sending a copy of that to him won't help his case, anyhow how will sending the original one help him (which you can't do anyway as you won't have it)?
The DVLA will have records of timescales, hence why he's received a fine.
I'd just ignore him, I wouldn't be too happy about giving out copies of my V5C to anybody.
The DVLA will have records of timescales, hence why he's received a fine.
I'd just ignore him, I wouldn't be too happy about giving out copies of my V5C to anybody.
Once you had the new V5c, I presume you registered it SORN? Was it actually taxed when you bought it? Sounds like he got a fine for an untaxed vehicle because he was so slow to send it off. But he would have had reminders and warnings too if this was the case.
I had a letter from DVLA in 2016 warning me my vehicle was untaxed. When I phoned them and pointed out them I'd declared it SORN over a month before, and had the email receipt of it, it was 'oh, ah, yes so you did.
'
Definitely sounds a strange one.
I had a letter from DVLA in 2016 warning me my vehicle was untaxed. When I phoned them and pointed out them I'd declared it SORN over a month before, and had the email receipt of it, it was 'oh, ah, yes so you did.
'Definitely sounds a strange one.
ianwayne said:
Once you had the new V5c, I presume you registered it SORN? Was it actually taxed when you bought it?
I have no idea if it was taxed when I bought it.When I got it home, I taxed it after a couple of weeks or so using the new keeper slip.
I should have taxed it straight away of course, but I wasn't going to be using it for a couple of weeks so I didn't bother.
Not that it makes any difference financially. I think when I did tax it, I had to pay the full month anyway.
Lord Marylebone said:
I should have taxed it straight away of course, but I wasn't going to be using it for a couple of weeks so I didn't bother.
And this is probably the reason it’s come back as untaxed. You should have taxed it using the green slip as soon as practicable after the purchase, or declared it SORN. Paying the full month retrospectively does not absolve to offence of it being untaxed while in your ownership, sounds like the seller is being stung for your offence while the paperwork was slowly grinding its way through the mail and highly efficient DVLA service. You admit yourself that you didn’t bother taxing it, so as far as I’m concerned you are at fault. What you do next depends on your morals.gazza285 said:
And this is probably the reason it’s come back as untaxed. You should have taxed it using the green slip as soon as practicable after the purchase, or declared it SORN. Paying the full month retrospectively does not absolve to offence of it being untaxed while in your ownership, sounds like the seller is being stung for your offence while the paperwork was slowly grinding its way through the mail and highly efficient DVLA service. You admit yourself that you didn’t bother taxing it, so as far as I’m concerned you are at fault. What you do next depends on your morals.
I see what you are saying.But... the DVLA clearly have the date I purchased the car. It is on the V5.
How can they now go after the previous owner when they know he didn't own the car during that untaxed period?
The DVLA know the date I bought the car, and they also know the date I taxed it.
Looks like you've both screwed up, and he's got the bill for it.
"The new V5 took slightly longer than expected to arrive, probably 3+ weeks." ... sounds like he didn't send the V5 off straight away.
In the meantime, you didn't tax it, so when they did their monthly sweep, it came up as untaxed and still in his ownership.
"The new V5 took slightly longer than expected to arrive, probably 3+ weeks." ... sounds like he didn't send the V5 off straight away.
In the meantime, you didn't tax it, so when they did their monthly sweep, it came up as untaxed and still in his ownership.
If it were me, I would just send him the money to cover the fine.
When you buy a car, you are supposed to either tax it or declare it SORN straight away.
Because you didn't do this, DVLA have sent out an automatic fine which just so happens to have gone to the old owner due to them not yet having the new owner details.
Now you can put part blame on the original owner for not sending off the slip either way but ultimately the fine has occurred due to the car not being taxed or SORN which is on you.
When you buy a car, you are supposed to either tax it or declare it SORN straight away.
Because you didn't do this, DVLA have sent out an automatic fine which just so happens to have gone to the old owner due to them not yet having the new owner details.
Now you can put part blame on the original owner for not sending off the slip either way but ultimately the fine has occurred due to the car not being taxed or SORN which is on you.
How would the car show up as not taxed in his ownership though?
As far as I know, the car wasn't SORN when I bought it as the seller still had it in use while he had it advertised for sale.
So it will have been still taxed until the day the DVLA processed the sale (3 weeks after sale) and then cancelled his tax on the car and issued him a refund for anything remaining.
Up until that point the DVLA didn't even know someone else had the car, nor did they know that it wasn't taxed by the new owner.
It would only have flagged up as not taxed when it was processed into my name.
Surely if they were going to write to anyone, it would be me as they know the date of sale, and they know when I taxed it. That's where the untaxed period is.
As far as I know, the car wasn't SORN when I bought it as the seller still had it in use while he had it advertised for sale.
So it will have been still taxed until the day the DVLA processed the sale (3 weeks after sale) and then cancelled his tax on the car and issued him a refund for anything remaining.
Up until that point the DVLA didn't even know someone else had the car, nor did they know that it wasn't taxed by the new owner.
It would only have flagged up as not taxed when it was processed into my name.
Surely if they were going to write to anyone, it would be me as they know the date of sale, and they know when I taxed it. That's where the untaxed period is.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 30th October 08:27
I don't see that it is any business of the previous owner what the new owner does once the sale has gone through. All the previous owner had to do was send of the duly filled out V5 and within a few days he would have had a letter informing him that he was no longer liable for it. It is the previous owners responsibility to notify the authorities of the transfer.
It matters not what the new owner does with it after that it will not affect the previous owner. That is why the authorities changed the system so the previous owner and not the new owner send the V5 to them notifying of the transfer.
It matters not what the new owner does with it after that it will not affect the previous owner. That is why the authorities changed the system so the previous owner and not the new owner send the V5 to them notifying of the transfer.
rewc said:
I don't see that it is any business of the previous owner what the new owner does once the sale has gone through. All the previous owner had to do was send of the duly filled out V5 and within a few days he would have had a letter informing him that he was no longer liable for it. It is the previous owners responsibility to notify the authorities of the transfer.
It matters not what the new owner does with it after that it will not affect the previous owner. That is why the authorities changed the system so the previous owner and not the new owner send the V5 to them notifying of the transfer.
That's what I was thinking.It matters not what the new owner does with it after that it will not affect the previous owner. That is why the authorities changed the system so the previous owner and not the new owner send the V5 to them notifying of the transfer.
One of two things has probably happened:
1) He has received an £80 fine for not sending the V5 off quickly enough after the car was sold - His fault.
2) The DVLA have sent him an £80 fine for the car not being taxed after I bought it - this is the DVLA's mess and surely he won't be liable for payment.
I'm going to ask him for a copy of the letter today and will post it here.
Sounds to me like something dodgy was going on with the tax (VED) before the OP bought it.
OP, find out from the seller or DVLA exactly what period the fine for no tax is for.
If it for any time when the seller owned it (including the month they sold it in (as it should already have been taxed)) then it is the sellers problem. If it is for any complete months after the sale then it's the buyers problem.
Neither side sending off the paperwork straight away has brought the problem to light. My money's on the seller being at fault but it should be quite easy to work out who should have taxed it and when.
OP, find out from the seller or DVLA exactly what period the fine for no tax is for.
If it for any time when the seller owned it (including the month they sold it in (as it should already have been taxed)) then it is the sellers problem. If it is for any complete months after the sale then it's the buyers problem.
Neither side sending off the paperwork straight away has brought the problem to light. My money's on the seller being at fault but it should be quite easy to work out who should have taxed it and when.
I can only think the tax was due to expire around the time you bought it and he didn't have direct debit set up - hence no further payments were made and the tax lapsed just before the DVLA processed the owner change.
He obviously wants the V5c to show the date of ownership change to defend his case. I'd probably help him out personally. Or tell him to contact the DVLA and tell them to check the date ownership changed. Its not his fine to pay - its yours
He obviously wants the V5c to show the date of ownership change to defend his case. I'd probably help him out personally. Or tell him to contact the DVLA and tell them to check the date ownership changed. Its not his fine to pay - its yours
So I may of been through exactly this a few years back just after the changes in taxing a car.
I sold a car.... I was so busy I didn't send off the V5 for a week not overly too long but I think the time of the month it was, meant the car was caught in a computer sweep. The guy hadn't declared it SORN or tax'd it as he thought it came with the tax.
I got the letter, called them up and explained it was sold on this date, they then sent the fine to the new owner as it was their job to tax or declare it SORN, that was the end of the issue for me.
Sounds like your fine, but hes got it because he didnt do his bit on sending the form, luckily for him (if) the letter/ fine is for not being Tax'd or declared SORN, it will be your fine.
I sold a car.... I was so busy I didn't send off the V5 for a week not overly too long but I think the time of the month it was, meant the car was caught in a computer sweep. The guy hadn't declared it SORN or tax'd it as he thought it came with the tax.
I got the letter, called them up and explained it was sold on this date, they then sent the fine to the new owner as it was their job to tax or declare it SORN, that was the end of the issue for me.
Sounds like your fine, but hes got it because he didnt do his bit on sending the form, luckily for him (if) the letter/ fine is for not being Tax'd or declared SORN, it will be your fine.
Lord Marylebone said:
One of two things has probably happened:
1) He has received an £80 fine for not sending the V5 off quickly enough after the car was sold - His fault.
2) The DVLA have sent him an £80 fine for the car not being taxed after I bought it - this is the DVLA's mess and surely he won't be liable for payment.
I'm going to ask him for a copy of the letter today and will post it here.
or 3. The car was untaxed for (say) 3 months before the sale and he thought he'd got away with it by selling the car before receiving a fine.1) He has received an £80 fine for not sending the V5 off quickly enough after the car was sold - His fault.
2) The DVLA have sent him an £80 fine for the car not being taxed after I bought it - this is the DVLA's mess and surely he won't be liable for payment.
I'm going to ask him for a copy of the letter today and will post it here.
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