Return of Faulty goods - delivery/courier costs

[BERGS2]

HI All -

Hoping someone from the assemble masses will be able to help with some advice here:

We (my wife) purchased a Fridge Freezer from an online retailer (though they have physical stores also)
on arriving, it never worked - didn't get down to temp
the engineer (manufacturers) came out and confirmed that it was not right - he also pointed out that he was usually called out to 10 year old models - not ones that were less than a week one.
lots of to-ing and fro-ing - the wanted a code from the manufacturer (which i believe effectively meant they'd written it off) - all fairly time consuming for my wife & painful
Retailer finally agreed to pick up and refund
On arriving to pick it up - they could not get it through the kitchen doors, as the handles were now on (an allen key that was unfortunately beyond the remit of the courier)

Wife spoke to retailer who advised that we would have to either return it ourselves (other end of the country) or pay the courier £150 to return

She was in tears as having taken numerous calls and time of work to be available for the pick up - we still have this useless fridge in the kitchen - not working and are £1699 down, as the retailer has yet to refund.

I'm incandescent with rage and have fired off a more far more curt email that my wife did below - but was hoping I could get some advice on the best course of action.

So other than broad rant of online shopping woes - the question really is:

Who is liable for the courier costs in this instance?

Was bought with Amazon Pay - so would a straight chargeback be possible?

Am really hacked off with the shop as it all seems to be the Manufacture or the couriers problem - with very little ownership of the problem from their side despite them having sold us the fking thing!

• ************

Order ID: 34488

The delivery team came on Tuesday but were unable to get the fridge out of the kitchen. The handles have been put on the fridge, as we set it up with every intention of using it – I don’t believe this to be unreasonable, as we were hardly to know it was faulty.

I have been called today to be told that I can either arrange to return the item myself, or pay the courier £150 to return. I categorically refuse to do either.

I have purchased this fridge in good faith, and paid £1,699, only to have a faulty product. Your company has now had my money since the 5th October, the situation is totally unacceptable. I have had to take time off work on 3 occasions to be home for this fridge, have had numerous phone calls and been significantly inconvenienced.

I bought the product from XXXX, it is faulty, and it is your responsibility to come up with a solution that:

Refunds my money as soon as possible
Removes the faulty product from my house
Inconveniences me further as little as possible


I expect a speedy resolution

[Mandat]

BERGS2 said:

HI All -

Hoping someone from the assemble masses will be able to help with some advice here:

We (my wife) purchased a Fridge Freezer from an online retailer (though they have physical stores also)
on arriving, it never worked - didn't get down to temp
the engineer (manufacturers) came out and confirmed that it was not right - he also pointed out that he was usually called out to 10 year old models - not ones that were less than a week one.
lots of to-ing and fro-ing - the wanted a code from the manufacturer (which i believe effectively meant they'd written it off) - all fairly time consuming for my wife & painful
Retailer finally agreed to pick up and refund
On arriving to pick it up - they could not get it through the kitchen doors, as the handles were now on (an allen key that was unfortunately beyond the remit of the courier)

Wife spoke to retailer who advised that we would have to either return it ourselves (other end of the country) or pay the courier £150 to return

She was in tears as having taken numerous calls and time of work to be available for the pick up - we still have this useless fridge in the kitchen - not working and are £1699 down, as the retailer has yet to refund.

I'm incandescent with rage and have fired off a more far more curt email that my wife did below - but was hoping I could get some advice on the best course of action.

So other than broad rant of online shopping woes - the question really is:

Who is liable for the courier costs in this instance?

Was bought with Amazon Pay - so would a straight chargeback be possible?

Am really hacked off with the shop as it all seems to be the Manufacture or the couriers problem - with very little ownership of the problem from their side despite them having sold us the fking thing!

• ************

Order ID: 34488

The delivery team came on Tuesday but were unable to get the fridge out of the kitchen. The handles have been put on the fridge, as we set it up with every intention of using it – I don’t believe this to be unreasonable, as we were hardly to know it was faulty.

I have been called today to be told that I can either arrange to return the item myself, or pay the courier £150 to return. I categorically refuse to do either.

I have purchased this fridge in good faith, and paid £1,699, only to have a faulty product. Your company has now had my money since the 5th October, the situation is totally unacceptable. I have had to take time off work on 3 occasions to be home for this fridge, have had numerous phone calls and been significantly inconvenienced.

I bought the product from XXXX, it is faulty, and it is your responsibility to come up with a solution that:

Refunds my money as soon as possible
Removes the faulty product from my house
Inconveniences me further as little as possible


I expect a speedy resolution

It seems to me that the problem that you now have has resulted from the missing allen key, that you used to fix the handles on.

What happened to the allen key that meant that it was not available when the courier arrived?

[Sheepshanks]

Who fitted the handles in the first place?

[Mr Pointy]

A couriers job is to collect the fridge, not to disassemble it.

[BERGS2]

Mandat said:

It seems to me that the problem that you now have has resulted from the missing allen key, that you used to fix the handles on.

What happened to the allen key that meant that it was not available when the courier arrived?

True.

To be honest. I don't know where the allen key was. My wife couldn't locate one, and the couriers were not going to hang around. I was at work so could not assist.

It wasn't apparent was that the handles would need to come off again to get the fridge out of the kitchen. In fact, it wasn't apparent that the fridge was going to need to go back until after we'd left it to sit for time prior to turning it on.

[33q]

Cool story Bro......well not that cool...

[hutchst]

BERGS2 said:

True.

To be honest. I don't know where the allen key was. My wife couldn't locate one, and the couriers were not going to hang around. I was at work so could not assist.

It wasn't apparent was that the handles would need to come off again to get the fridge out of the kitchen. In fact, it wasn't apparent that the fridge was going to need to go back until after we'd left it to sit for time prior to turning it on.

Would it have made any difference if you had been at home?

[untakenname]

imo it's unreasonable to expect the courier to disassemble an appliance that costs more than they earn in a month as if they get it wrong then they could potentially be liable, the handles should have already been removed before the couriers arrived if it won't fit through your door.

Slightly OT but if your wife is crying over having to converse on the phone and arrange delivery then that needs to be addressed, you can't blame a fridge for that or expect compensation.

I have a Samsung fridge freezer and the instructions for removing the doors are pretty concise and a key was provided with the fridge, took less than two minutes.


http://support-us.samsung.com/nas/storage/20150909...

At least you're getting a refund, my fridge is set to max warmth but it turns everything in the salad drawer to ice

Either ask the company politely to rearrange collection and pay the fee or go to the Daily Mail with your story and practice some sad face expressions.

[4rephill]

BERGS2 said:

......It wasn't apparent was that the handles would need to come off again to get the fridge out of the kitchen....

Huh?

Had the width of the doorway increased since the fridge freezer was delivered?

Had the Laws of physics changed since the fridge freezer was delivered?

If the handles had to be removed to get the fridge freezer into the kitchen, then common sense says that they needed to come off to get it back out of the kitchen!

As Sheldon Cooper would say: "That's just simple logic!"

[Red Devil]

OP, if the removal issue is simply the handles, get them off sharpish.
If you can't find the Allen key go to Wilco/ ECP and buy a set. They're only a couple of quid.
Any self-respecting PHer should have one in their toolbox anyway.

Then tell the seller to rearrange collection. They are respoonsible for that cost.
See the Consumer Rights Act 2015 Section 20(8) - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...

BERGS2 said:

Was bought with Amazon Pay - so would a straight chargeback be possible?

In your case Amazon is almost certainly a payment facilitator. Your contract is with the seller.
You might be able to get Amazon onside though: see - https://pay.amazon.com/ie/help/201754720

If you paid with a credit card then, should push come to shove, get cracking with a chargeback via your card provider.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-ma...

I find that tends to concentrate a seller's mind. Been there, done that...
It's not a quick process and involves a certain degree of paperwork/form filling but it definitely works.

[frisbee]

4rephill said:

BERGS2 said:

......It wasn't apparent was that the handles would need to come off again to get the fridge out of the kitchen....

Huh?

Had the width of the doorway increased since the fridge freezer was delivered?

Had the Laws of physics changed since the fridge freezer was delivered?

If the handles had to be removed to get the fridge freezer into the kitchen, then common sense says that they needed to come off to get it back out of the kitchen!

As Sheldon Cooper would say: "That's just simple logic!"

The fridge was most likely delivered without the handles fitted.

But well done with your post.

[Derek Smith]

Red Devil said:

In your case Amazon is almost certainly a payment facilitator. Your contract is with the seller.
You might be able to get Amazon onside though: see - https://pay.amazon.com/ie/help/201754720

If you paid with a credit card then, should push come to shove, get cracking with a chargeback via your card provider.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-ma...

I find that tends to concentrate a seller's mind. Been there, done that...
It's not a quick process and involves a certain degree of paperwork/form filling but it definitely works.

I would agree.

I've used my credit card's dispute resolution and they were very effective. I provided them with details. After a short period they agreed and refunded the money immediately. The dispute with the supplier went on for 3 months and I was twice required to provide information that had nothing to do with the dispute, this despite the law being clearly on my side.

I was quite impressed.

[roadsmash]

Surely this thread should be titled “I’ve lost my Allen key.”

[Helicopter123]

£1,699 for a Fridge Freezer?

Edited by Helicopter123 on Saturday 3rd November 17:47

[Burwood]

frisbee said:

4rephill said:

BERGS2 said:

......It wasn't apparent was that the handles would need to come off again to get the fridge out of the kitchen....

Huh?

Had the width of the doorway increased since the fridge freezer was delivered?

Had the Laws of physics changed since the fridge freezer was delivered?

If the handles had to be removed to get the fridge freezer into the kitchen, then common sense says that they needed to come off to get it back out of the kitchen!

As Sheldon Cooper would say: "That's just simple logic!"

The fridge was most likely delivered without the handles fitted.

But well done with your post.

common sense should prevail on the part of the Seller. Liaise with you, ask you to remove the handles. Post you a key before pick up? Either way it's THEIR problem regarding all costs. I would write to them ASAP advising them that you will charge the cost of appliance back forthwith. You could make your life a bit easier and buy a key. A set is about £3 at B&Q

[Buster73]

The joy of buying a product off an internet site and delivered from a warehouse at the other end of the country.

If you’d bought this from a local retailer it would have been sorted by now.

Support your local businesses before it’s too late.

[anonymous-user]

roadsmash said:

Surely this thread should be titled “I’ve lost my Allen key.”

Made from unobtainium, rare as fk...or not.

[OldGermanHeaps]

Buster73 said:

The joy of buying a product off an internet site and delivered from a warehouse at the other end of the country.

If you’d bought this from a local retailer it would have been sorted by now.

Support your local businesses before it’s too late.

Qfa
Its well worth a couple of quid extra to have decent support nearby, and people are far less likely to come the when you are face to face with them and not an impractical distance away.

[hutchst]

Burwood said:

common sense should prevail on the part of the Seller. Liaise with you, ask you to remove the handles. Post you a key before pick up? Either way it's THEIR problem regarding all costs. I would write to them ASAP advising them that you will charge the cost of appliance back forthwith. You could make your life a bit easier and buy a key. A set is about £3 at B&Q

Not really. s20(8) of CRA makes specific mention of reasonable costs. The reason it does that is to provide for circumstances where the seller is not responsible for all costs.

Paying a courier twice in this case might be reasonable, and it might not. The only way to find out, if you can't reach an agreement with the seller, is to go to court and ask the judge. In the meantime your ice cream is melting all over your new carpet.

[Burwood]

Only on these boards are parts of the Act quoted, and incorrectly. The answer is crystal clear and common sense.