Police Pursuits
Discussion
Another tragedy where a car being chased by the police leads to the deaths of innocent people going about their own business.
We see this becoming far to common, will the time come where these “car chases” are stopped earlier where the police make a call to stop the pursuit rather than keep pushing these idiots to the brink of a disaster.
Surely chasing these “low life’s” is pointless as the system doesn’t deal with them when caught but there is a massive risk to the public when being chased and pushed by highly experienced police drivers.
Just wondering how this can be better dealt with, understand there has to be a degree of policing but at what cost.
We see this becoming far to common, will the time come where these “car chases” are stopped earlier where the police make a call to stop the pursuit rather than keep pushing these idiots to the brink of a disaster.
Surely chasing these “low life’s” is pointless as the system doesn’t deal with them when caught but there is a massive risk to the public when being chased and pushed by highly experienced police drivers.
Just wondering how this can be better dealt with, understand there has to be a degree of policing but at what cost.
I think it's rather the idiots making off than the police that caused these deaths.
Further to that the pursuit had been abandoned prior to the collision taking place from what I read in one report but there's conflicting reports.
Pursuits are risk assessed constantly, they get called off more often than not here which whilst frustrating ultimately the safety of everyone else comes first. This will most likely be on video, it'll be scrutinized in minute detail from the recordings of the radio transmissions, data from the telematics in the police vehicle as well as accounts from the officers involved.
It's horrific, the risk can be reduced but never removed. It's a shame the Golf occupants escaped with minor injuries which is often the case
Further to that the pursuit had been abandoned prior to the collision taking place from what I read in one report but there's conflicting reports.
Pursuits are risk assessed constantly, they get called off more often than not here which whilst frustrating ultimately the safety of everyone else comes first. This will most likely be on video, it'll be scrutinized in minute detail from the recordings of the radio transmissions, data from the telematics in the police vehicle as well as accounts from the officers involved.
It's horrific, the risk can be reduced but never removed. It's a shame the Golf occupants escaped with minor injuries which is often the case
Edited by Greendubber on Sunday 11th November 19:42
From what I've seen, calling off pursuits makes them drive worse. The scum know if they drive like lunatics the police will be forced to call off the pursuit. So if your scum class and the blues come on behind you, the default choice is run and drive insanely.
In an environment where the police never surrender and pursue and prosecute to the end of the world if necessary then some will not bother to run knowing they are unlikely to escape. The joy rider types and youths who think they are invicible will probably carry on regardless.
In an environment where the police never surrender and pursue and prosecute to the end of the world if necessary then some will not bother to run knowing they are unlikely to escape. The joy rider types and youths who think they are invicible will probably carry on regardless.
As an advanced, TPAC Police driver with 18yrs experience in dealing with pursuits, I am certainly in a position to comment on this topic. As far as I can see from what you are suggesting it is no longer in the public interest to pursue offenders.
At what point would you want an offender stopped if they get into a vehicle.
Option A) Drink driver is seen getting into a vehicle and pulls out onto a main road heading towards a town centre, would you pursue or not?
Option B) Domestic Violence offender has left a home address after assaulting an ex-partner leaving her with serious injuries, vehicle is seen in the near vicinity and driver has previous for failing to stop for Police, would you pursue or not?
Option C) Information given that a Black Audi RS6 has 3 x persons on board who are known to Police for gang related violence, intell is that they are en-route to commit a gang related murder, would you pursue or not?
Every pursuit is risk managed, from the officer behind the wheel to an Insp in the control room. To now have a situation where it is a free for all for anyone behind the wheel to be allowed to just drive off safe in the knowledge that Police won't be allowed to follow is in my opinion, crazy.
Although some of the changes in both the world we live in and the world that I police, it wouldn't surprise me if we went down that particular rabbit hole.
At what point would you want an offender stopped if they get into a vehicle.
Option A) Drink driver is seen getting into a vehicle and pulls out onto a main road heading towards a town centre, would you pursue or not?
Option B) Domestic Violence offender has left a home address after assaulting an ex-partner leaving her with serious injuries, vehicle is seen in the near vicinity and driver has previous for failing to stop for Police, would you pursue or not?
Option C) Information given that a Black Audi RS6 has 3 x persons on board who are known to Police for gang related violence, intell is that they are en-route to commit a gang related murder, would you pursue or not?
Every pursuit is risk managed, from the officer behind the wheel to an Insp in the control room. To now have a situation where it is a free for all for anyone behind the wheel to be allowed to just drive off safe in the knowledge that Police won't be allowed to follow is in my opinion, crazy.
Although some of the changes in both the world we live in and the world that I police, it wouldn't surprise me if we went down that particular rabbit hole.
The fault of any accident lays squarely at the door of the pond scum who try and outrun the police, and relaxing the rules on pursuits will only increase the numbers of chases and the risk to the public as they think they will have more chance of escape.
Looking to the future a huge fleet of long range drones would do the trick, no doubt it would cost an absolute fortune to run being a public service project but worth it.
Looking to the future a huge fleet of long range drones would do the trick, no doubt it would cost an absolute fortune to run being a public service project but worth it.
Marcellus said:
They already do to a degree, as I understand it all chases have to approved by a senior officer who is not involved in the chase based on the assessment of risk.
The police do have to be allowed to pursue people otherwise no one would ever stop, just think where that would end up!
Agree totally that there has to be the ability to pursue these idiots, just wondering how to stop such a waste of innocent people’s life’s.The police do have to be allowed to pursue people otherwise no one would ever stop, just think where that would end up!
Psycho Warren said:
From what I've seen, calling off pursuits makes them drive worse. The scum know if they drive like lunatics the police will be forced to call off the pursuit. So if your scum class and the blues come on behind you, the default choice is run and drive insanely.
In an environment where the police never surrender and pursue and prosecute to the end of the world if necessary then some will not bother to run knowing they are unlikely to escape. The joy rider types and youths who think they are invicible will probably carry on regardless.
I think you are right. We all know from watching Police Action Camera etc that the police will have to call off a pursuit if the driver being chased drives badly enough. This therefore would appear to encourage bad driving. Far better to never give up, and yes there might be some collateral injuries or even fatalities to innocent third parties but if its the only way to stop these people who dont stop so be it.In an environment where the police never surrender and pursue and prosecute to the end of the world if necessary then some will not bother to run knowing they are unlikely to escape. The joy rider types and youths who think they are invicible will probably carry on regardless.
Fermit and Sarah said:
I real feel for the police with this. They are damned if they chase and something goes wrong, they are damned if they don't and the scum escape. There is no easy answer, but maybe there should be a lifetime driving ban for anyone who fails to stop for the police.
Agreed, apart from some s
tbag lawyer will convince a judge that thats against their human rights, and a ban doesnt stop them jumping in a car and repeating what they did before. If they are wired that way that they dont respect laws they sure as hell wont respect any driving ban handed down to them.Another thing. Police pursuit drivers should be immune from any consequences if something goes wrong, like it did in Sheffield on Friday. Imagine, you risk your neck to apprehend some pond life, then have to witness innocent blood spilled, THEN be hauled up for it! It's one situation where 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture can FRO.
Fermit and Sarah said:
Another thing. Police pursuit drivers should be immune from any consequences if something goes wrong, like it did in Sheffield on Friday. Imagine, you risk your neck to apprehend some pond life, then have to witness innocent blood spilled, THEN be hauled up for it! It's one situation where 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture can FRO.
Absolutely disagree. I don’t think the police should be held responsible for the other drivers driving, but they should be responsible as an organisation and I suppose ultimately as a individual for making a call as to whether the the public are being put at too great a risk.Which I believe is the status quo
Schmed said:
I’m sorry, but what the actual fk ? !
Hardened criminals are on the run from the police and you are saying due to “health and safety” the police should not pursue so they are free to commit more crimes ? Jesus fking Christ are you a millenial or what ? Fecking hippies.
Get down off your high horse.k ? !Hardened criminals are on the run from the police and you are saying due to “health and safety” the police should not pursue so they are free to commit more crimes ? Jesus f
king Christ are you a millenial or what ? Fecking hippies.Where does it even say what you are implying, the question was what can be done to try and reduce fatalities when pursuing these idiots.
Not a f
king hippie as you put it, just a question on where the limit is, how it is controlled and what can be done to try and reduce the risks. My point was when they are caught they are back doing the same again so there is no deterrent until something like a fatality where they will then see a long sentence.
I’m more for getting hard on them early on in their criminal career so they aren’t on the streets causing risk to inniocent people.
So just to reiterate I am not a hippy nor a millennial, nor am I saying that the police shouldn’t be chasing them.
chunder27 said:
Lol, here you have a situation where plod are sometimes not going to get involved.
Yet they say by in Rotherham when they knew cabbies and gangs were grooming kids.
I have little or no sympathy for them I'm sorry.
And my Dad is ex plod.
I suspect he's rather disappointed with you. Yet they say by in Rotherham when they knew cabbies and gangs were grooming kids.
I have little or no sympathy for them I'm sorry.
And my Dad is ex plod.
tighnamara said:
Another tragedy where a car being chased by the police leads to the deaths of innocent people going about their own business.
We see this becoming far to common, will the time come where these “car chases” are stopped earlier where the police make a call to stop the pursuit rather than keep pushing these idiots to the brink of a disaster.
Surely chasing these “low life’s” is pointless as the system doesn’t deal with them when caught but there is a massive risk to the public when being chased and pushed by highly experienced police drivers.
Just wondering how this can be better dealt with, understand there has to be a degree of policing but at what cost.
You suggest that "this is becoming far too common" as if the rate of crahes is greater now than it has been. I'm not sure if this is correct.We see this becoming far to common, will the time come where these “car chases” are stopped earlier where the police make a call to stop the pursuit rather than keep pushing these idiots to the brink of a disaster.
Surely chasing these “low life’s” is pointless as the system doesn’t deal with them when caught but there is a massive risk to the public when being chased and pushed by highly experienced police drivers.
Just wondering how this can be better dealt with, understand there has to be a degree of policing but at what cost.
You are wondering how it can be better dealt with. The SOPs for pursuits are decided by the Home Office, but many forces tend to go further. Even in my day, the senior officer in the force control room was in charge of any pursuit and had to give reasons for it to continue. The first car in the pursuit had the same responsibility as well, so if there was an accident, both parties would be interviewed by the IPCC. During a pursuit I would get the controller to type into the log my reasons for allowing the pursuit to continue every couple of minutes.
I've cancelled a pursuit when the driver of the sole pursuing police vehicle said, 'Turning right, right, right' when the car was turning left.
You want a better way? Don't you think that the police and HO have been changing the SOPs for years to try and come up with a balance between risk and need. There seems to be a bit of conceit to suggest that this is not of great concern to the police.
Further, if a pursuit is abandoned, either by a driver or someone remote, then if the offending car has a crash some distance later, then this is still classified as a crash during a pursuit. There's no difference in the eyes of the IPCC, nor in the eyes of many reporters.
Perhaps one of the serving officers on here to say whether, as rumoured, suspects are more willing to try and drive off nowadays.
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