Total loss marker
Discussion
12lee said:
Can a car insurer correctly place a total loss marker on a car when the claim has not been settled?
Yes, if the claim is pending, but if they refuse to settle then the marker should be removed.Our fleet regularly has vehicles smashed up that start as a claim, but the underwriters then find a reason not to pay out - usually because somebody has lied on their proposal, or it was being driven by someone who shouldn't have been behind the wheel.
We sell at salvage auction as an unrecorded loss, then bill the shortfall against CAP back to the customer. These vehciles would ordinarily be written off and sold as Cat S or N (formerly C or D)
I'll usually speak to the claim handler who then organises for the marker to be removed,
That said, some of the salvage sites are now instructing their own engineers to register as Cat B if the vehicles are very badly damaged in order to prevent the identity being shifted to a stolen vehicle.
Many thanks.
Am currently negotiating with insurer about their low valuation vs (their approved) repairer's high quote that is more than the car's value, vs. our preferred repairer's quote being 50% of a more realistic valuation of the vehicle (which they have now accepted). Meanwhile, they have placed a Cat N marker on the vehicle on MIAFTR which they say cannot be removed. Meanwhile, we have the vehicle and title to the vehicle and have not accepted their offer of settlement. This does not seem correct to me. We are going down the route of potentially an independent engineer's decision as to repairability. What I don't understand is that if the engineer rules in our favour which presumably binds the insurer to repairing (or a cash in lieu settlement) what the insurer will do given they have placed the marker on the vehicle and claim that it cannot be removed.
Would appreciate more understanding from those in the know. Thanks.
Am currently negotiating with insurer about their low valuation vs (their approved) repairer's high quote that is more than the car's value, vs. our preferred repairer's quote being 50% of a more realistic valuation of the vehicle (which they have now accepted). Meanwhile, they have placed a Cat N marker on the vehicle on MIAFTR which they say cannot be removed. Meanwhile, we have the vehicle and title to the vehicle and have not accepted their offer of settlement. This does not seem correct to me. We are going down the route of potentially an independent engineer's decision as to repairability. What I don't understand is that if the engineer rules in our favour which presumably binds the insurer to repairing (or a cash in lieu settlement) what the insurer will do given they have placed the marker on the vehicle and claim that it cannot be removed.
Would appreciate more understanding from those in the know. Thanks.
The insurers should notify or update MIAFTR as soon as they become aware of a vehicles condition during a claim.
As mentioned if the situation changes they can amend.
Your insurer is complying with ABI guidelines.
Focus on your valuation dispute rather than complicating the situation with something that won’t go against the insurer should you escalate to the FOS.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
5.0 DVLA/ MIAFTR NOTIFICATION
A MIAFTR entry must be completed in respect of all categorised vehicles, indicating the salvage category as soon as reasonably practical after the inspection. Completing a MIAFTR entry meets the regulatory requirements for insurers/ self-insured to notify DVLA under the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.
It is essential that notifications to MIAFTR are made properly and that amended/ updated information is submitted within two working days of the final decision.
As mentioned if the situation changes they can amend.
Your insurer is complying with ABI guidelines.
Focus on your valuation dispute rather than complicating the situation with something that won’t go against the insurer should you escalate to the FOS.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
5.0 DVLA/ MIAFTR NOTIFICATION
A MIAFTR entry must be completed in respect of all categorised vehicles, indicating the salvage category as soon as reasonably practical after the inspection. Completing a MIAFTR entry meets the regulatory requirements for insurers/ self-insured to notify DVLA under the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.
It is essential that notifications to MIAFTR are made properly and that amended/ updated information is submitted within two working days of the final decision.
ZOLLAR said:
As mentioned if the situation changes they can amend.
But they won't because they don't understand the guidelines, even though they are employed by a company that allegedly agreed to them!
Your insurer is complying with ABI guidelines.
Focus on your valuation dispute rather than complicating the situation with something that won’t go against the insurer should you escalate to the FOS.
No, focus on what the insurer is trying to do to your car as well!
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
5.0 DVLA/ MIAFTR NOTIFICATION
A MIAFTR entry must be completed in respect of all categorised vehicles, indicating the salvage category as soon as reasonably practical after the inspection. Completing a MIAFTR entry meets the regulatory requirements for insurers/ self-insured to notify DVLA under the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.
It is essential that notifications to MIAFTR are made properly and that amended/ updated information is submitted within two working days of the final decision.
This is the ABI document:- file:///C:/Users/iaind/Documents/My%20Documents/Rob/ABI%20Salvage%20Code%20of%20Practice.pdfBut they won't because they don't understand the guidelines, even though they are employed by a company that allegedly agreed to them!
Your insurer is complying with ABI guidelines.
Focus on your valuation dispute rather than complicating the situation with something that won’t go against the insurer should you escalate to the FOS.
No, focus on what the insurer is trying to do to your car as well!
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publicat...
5.0 DVLA/ MIAFTR NOTIFICATION
A MIAFTR entry must be completed in respect of all categorised vehicles, indicating the salvage category as soon as reasonably practical after the inspection. Completing a MIAFTR entry meets the regulatory requirements for insurers/ self-insured to notify DVLA under the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002.
It is essential that notifications to MIAFTR are made properly and that amended/ updated information is submitted within two working days of the final decision.
But my mate's insurer (some sort of senior naval rank) didn't even bother sending an "engineer" to look at his car and based on his phone photos decided it was a Cat S!
There was no damage to any of the structural parts detailed in the ABI document, but he couldn't contact anyone with enough knowledge/experience to work this out!
That's what happens when you can't get past the call-centre monkeys!
Mr Tidy said:
This is the ABI document:- file:///C:/Users/iaind/Documents/My%20Documents/Rob/ABI%20Salvage%20Code%20of%20Practice.pdf
But my mate's insurer (some sort of senior naval rank) didn't even bother sending an "engineer" to look at his car and based on his phone photos decided it was a Cat S!
There was no damage to any of the structural parts detailed in the ABI document, but he couldn't contact anyone with enough knowledge/experience to work this out!
That's what happens when you can't get past the call-centre monkeys!
The link you've provided is a local file.But my mate's insurer (some sort of senior naval rank) didn't even bother sending an "engineer" to look at his car and based on his phone photos decided it was a Cat S!
There was no damage to any of the structural parts detailed in the ABI document, but he couldn't contact anyone with enough knowledge/experience to work this out!
That's what happens when you can't get past the call-centre monkeys!
Insurer's don't send out an engineer to look at every single vehicle, logistically it's not possible.
I'd say almost all insurers will have contact centre staff trained to ask relevant questions and make a phone based decision on whether a car is repairable or not.
8/10 times it's probably accurate, no system is perfect however consumers demand claims be dealt with quicker and with less cost to themselves so this is the process that has developed.
Once salvage have collected the car in house engineers assess the images and place a category not the contact centre staff, there's now software that will do this process and also estimate repair costs just by images sent in by the policyholder.
Remember, it's 2018 not 1998.
Regarding your comment "call-centre monkeys", don't forget they're just staff doing a job within guidelines set out for them, comments such as that say more about you than them.
Treat someone with respect that you expect as a customer and you may get them to go the extra mile for you.
ZOLLAR said:
Insurer's don't send out an engineer to look at every single vehicle, logistically it's not possible.
I'd say almost all insurers will have contact centre staff trained to ask relevant questions and make a phone based decision on whether a car is repairable or not.
It's probably slightly different for us as a fleet operator, but I'm finding that the insurers are getting all vehicles recovered straight to salvage sites like CoPart or CD Auctions, and it is the on-site ABI approved/qualified engineer that is making the call.I'd say almost all insurers will have contact centre staff trained to ask relevant questions and make a phone based decision on whether a car is repairable or not.
If it is repairable, then it's moved onwards to a bodyshop, otherwise it stays where it is for disposal.
Maybe it's different for private individuals, but for fleets everything has to be fully documented.
I'm trying to recover a £43k+ uninsured loss on a Maserati at the moment after it was rolled by a driver who shouldn't have been in it. The insurers refused to cover it, and it only went for £22k salvage against a CAP of just over £50k, despite being unrecorded.
S11Steve said:
ZOLLAR said:
Insurer's don't send out an engineer to look at every single vehicle, logistically it's not possible.
I'd say almost all insurers will have contact centre staff trained to ask relevant questions and make a phone based decision on whether a car is repairable or not.
It's probably slightly different for us as a fleet operator, but I'm finding that the insurers are getting all vehicles recovered straight to salvage sites like CoPart or CD Auctions, and it is the on-site ABI approved/qualified engineer that is making the call.I'd say almost all insurers will have contact centre staff trained to ask relevant questions and make a phone based decision on whether a car is repairable or not.
If it is repairable, then it's moved onwards to a bodyshop, otherwise it stays where it is for disposal.
Maybe it's different for private individuals, but for fleets everything has to be fully documented.
I'm trying to recover a £43k+ uninsured loss on a Maserati at the moment after it was rolled by a driver who shouldn't have been in it. The insurers refused to cover it, and it only went for £22k salvage against a CAP of just over £50k, despite being unrecorded.
It does appear to differ greatly possibly due to consumer demands and ombudsman expectations.
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