PCN.. bit harsh? (with added LOL at end)
Discussion
My old man (85yrs young) got a PCN the other day. He had paid and displayed BUT made an error in that the machine stated he needed to enter his VRN, but he only entered the numbers not the letters. He thought that is what he had to do; the Council got their money. Still he got a PCN. He appealed as he had a fully paid for ticket but lost the appeal. Seems very harsh to me. Shame on you Melton Mowbray Borough Council; he's an old bloke who thought he was doing it right and paid in full.
PS the LOL is that another even older geezer didn't know how to use the machine. So my old man confidently showed him how to enter his VRN ..... I guess he got a ticket too and is cursing both my old man and Melton Mowbray BC :-)
PS the LOL is that another even older geezer didn't know how to use the machine. So my old man confidently showed him how to enter his VRN ..... I guess he got a ticket too and is cursing both my old man and Melton Mowbray BC :-)
Can't really help but I'm amazed the wardens looked past the time stamp on the ticket and went to the effort of checking the reg plate. Is passing on a ticket that much of an issue? I know my council introduced the number ones years ago (probably what your Dad thought) not long before the "51" plates were introduced rendering them pretty useless.
Seems petty to me.
Seems petty to me.
Did they offer a refund for the fees paid?
I'd probably stick to my guns, as your dad paid the fee and they accepted the money (no refund), you could argue a contract for parking was in place. Their counter: your father made a mistake which they would argue void the contract. In which case why haven't they offered a refund? they are partly culpable for the mistake: why does their system not validate reg numbers to prevent mistakes etc?
You can always start to copy in local councillors or press and complain about harassment of a vulnerable member of society (lay it on thick, there will be wording like you will be prosecuted which you can cite as being .
Be a pain in the arse I bet it goes away.
I'd probably stick to my guns, as your dad paid the fee and they accepted the money (no refund), you could argue a contract for parking was in place. Their counter: your father made a mistake which they would argue void the contract. In which case why haven't they offered a refund? they are partly culpable for the mistake: why does their system not validate reg numbers to prevent mistakes etc?
You can always start to copy in local councillors or press and complain about harassment of a vulnerable member of society (lay it on thick, there will be wording like you will be prosecuted which you can cite as being .
Be a pain in the arse I bet it goes away.
Edited by MDUBZ on Tuesday 20th November 10:24
Perfectly qualified to be a parking attendant.SteBrown91 said:
As harsh as it sounds full instructions are written above the machine and/or on the machine itself.
If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
Is he though? When and how did it become a condition of parking that the reg must entered to make the ticket valid?If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
MikeStroud said:
. He appealed as he had a fully paid for ticket but lost the appeal.
Seems that councils are worse that private parking management companies, I made a worse error in a privately managed car park (failed to notice that wrong car was registered from a previous occasion), wrote to them explaining my error and that I had actually paid for one space, and used one space and got let off.Is there a higher level of appeal
I know there might not be, years ago I fell foul of interpretation of what 'loading' might mean and got a ticket from West Wilts Council, appealed and lost, no further appeal possible
BertBert said:
SteBrown91 said:
As harsh as it sounds full instructions are written above the machine and/or on the machine itself.
If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
Is he though? When and how did it become a condition of parking that the reg must entered to make the ticket valid?If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
There's always a que of people waiting inline to pay for the parking.
Whenever I've been I end up helping others work out what they have to do.
BertBert said:
SteBrown91 said:
As harsh as it sounds full instructions are written above the machine and/or on the machine itself.
If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
Is he though? When and how did it become a condition of parking that the reg must entered to make the ticket valid?If he hasnt followed those instructions he’s liable for a ticket.
Entering your car reg can only be to stop you giving any unused part to someone else. Also probably calculated to make people get it wrong and maximise revenue through fines.
MikeStroud said:
I agree. He paid for and used one space.
Entering your car reg can only be to stop you giving any unused part to someone else. Also probably calculated to make people get it wrong and maximise revenue through fines.
Therefore, but numerically difficult, he could have been given the ticket by someone else!Entering your car reg can only be to stop you giving any unused part to someone else. Also probably calculated to make people get it wrong and maximise revenue through fines.
silverfoxcc said:
Unfortunately, with councils on any parking/decriminalised traffic offence, once you have paid thats it.
Generally correct, but I have had a few cases where our company paid the PCN for whatever reason, then after a conversation with both the driver and the issuing authority they have been reversed.Real exceptional circumstances though - most recent one was a cloned plate on a Congestion Charge PCN - we can't transfer these, so pay them on arrival. It's only when the driver got thecharge were we made aware of it.
Similarly, we tried to transfer a Bus Lane PCN, which was rejected (because we didn't supply a driving licence number and date of birth for a Ltd company.... yes they are that blinkered!)
When the driver received the bill, they advised that the bus lane had been suspended for a weekend due to a local cycling event. It took a while, but this too was eventually refunded.
Again, exceptional circumstances, although some local authority parking departments are much easier to deal with than others.
I think my local Council are quite lenient with parking charges; once the wife parked outside the lines, she got a fine and insisted she had parked within the lines, I appealed on that basis, it was cancelled but photo's were sent and she was out of the lines!!
Second time, she put my reg in to her Ringo account as opposed to hers, completely by mistake, she had a fine, she appealed on that basis and it was cancelled.
Second time, she put my reg in to her Ringo account as opposed to hers, completely by mistake, she had a fine, she appealed on that basis and it was cancelled.
mfmman said:
MikeStroud said:
. He appealed as he had a fully paid for ticket but lost the appeal.
Seems that councils are worse that private parking management companies, I made a worse error in a privately managed car park (failed to notice that wrong car was registered from a previous occasion), wrote to them explaining my error and that I had actually paid for one space, and used one space and got let off.Is there a higher level of appeal
I know there might not be, years ago I fell foul of interpretation of what 'loading' might mean and got a ticket from West Wilts Council, appealed and lost, no further appeal possible
Formal challenge - in response to the notice that comes through the post.
Tribunal - if your formal challenge is rejected.
After that you can go through the courts if you're really adamant you're in the right, but to be honest if you lose at Tribunal I very much doubt that's the case!
SonicShadow said:
Informal challenge (almost always rejected) - only applicable to a PCN stuck to your windscreen.
Formal challenge - in response to the notice that comes through the post.
Tribunal - if your formal challenge is rejected.
After that you can go through the courts if you're really adamant you're in the right, but to be honest if you lose at Tribunal I very much doubt that's the case!
After tribunal/PATAS/TPT whatever it is called this month, the only option is a judicial review. The only time I've come this close was when dealing with a freeman of the land nobber. Parked on double yellows, and spouted utter nonsense for months on end, and insisted it was his human right that every legal avenue should be explored at our time and cost.Formal challenge - in response to the notice that comes through the post.
Tribunal - if your formal challenge is rejected.
After that you can go through the courts if you're really adamant you're in the right, but to be honest if you lose at Tribunal I very much doubt that's the case!
Insisted I referred to him as Lord too. And signed everything "Lord John, of the Family Brown" - (name changed to protect the stupid)
I sent the repo guy in with a spare key to uplift the vehicle in the middle of the night - he rang me the next morning to report it stolen, I advised he needed to report it to the police - he was apoplectic at the mere thought of having to do that - uttering words I had never heard before in a tone only audible to bats and dogs.
Funny that people who'd have you bang to rights under the terms of the contract written on a solitary badly placed sign you've agreed to upon entering a private car park, would also have the conditions of displaying a valid (i.e. with the correct reg) ticket supersede the contract of putting your money in, taking a ticket and parking.
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