Evans Halshaw Fined for Saying Car was 'One Owner'
Discussion
Evans Halshaw have been fined for describing a car as 'one owner', when that one owner was a lease company.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/e...
Frankly, I don't see it's the biggest crime in the book. It was one owner. The prospective buyer got his deposit back.
https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/e...
Frankly, I don't see it's the biggest crime in the book. It was one owner. The prospective buyer got his deposit back.
The Mad Monk said:
Frankly, I don't see it's the biggest crime in the book. It was one owner. The prospective buyer got his deposit back.
It wasn't the first time they were convicted of it, in 2016. But it becomes far more serious when they ignore that lesson and keep doing the same. Courts don't like being ignored.Variomatic said:
The Mad Monk said:
Frankly, I don't see it's the biggest crime in the book. It was one owner. The prospective buyer got his deposit back.
It wasn't the first time they were convicted of it, in 2016. But it becomes far more serious when they ignore that lesson and keep doing the same. Courts don't like being ignored.anonymous said:
[redacted]
To assume that there must be something wrong with a hire car is little more than a personal prejudice. I've come across buyers with many kinds of personal prejudice before: questioning if the previous owner had a young ( might have ragged it ) or old ( might have bumped it, slipped the clutch ) sounding name, if their name had certain racial or cultural connotations ( does it smell of spicy food or drugs ), if it was a woman ( might have been careless ) with varying degrees of seriousness and sincerity.
The converse of that of course is when they spot a "titled previous owner" or "ex royal household" car .
As I understand it, the attempt to rationalise an aversion to ex hire cars is to do with how they might have somehow been ritually abused more than their design tolerances can withstand and will therefore be faulty and unreliable.
Given that these faults may not manifest themselves immediately and may only become apparent in later life should not any subsequent sellers be required to declare whether or not the car has been a hire car? So if a seller, whether trade or private, is asked "How many owners?" , rather than glibly replying 2, 3 or whatever they would be obliged to declare whether or not the first owner was a hire company / business user as this "might be something that would put a buyer off"
Tesla sell their loan cars as new inventory.. makes what EH did look lime insignificant
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJXDCE48GF024834
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/used/5YJXDCE48GF024834
Wooda80 said:
Given that these faults may not manifest themselves immediately and may only become apparent in later life should not any subsequent sellers be required to declare whether or not the car has been a hire car? So if a seller, whether trade or private, is asked "How many owners?" , rather than glibly replying 2, 3 or whatever they would be obliged to declare whether or not the first owner was a hire company / business user as this "might be something that would put a buyer off"
As a potential private seller of a car with 5 previous registered keepers how am I expected to know who the first one was?I'm guessing you haven't read this thread - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Wooda80 said:
To assume that there must be something wrong with a hire car is little more than a personal prejudice.
Is it though? Random numbers with no real basis incoming, but this is how I see it. Say 1 in 10 people abuse their car - ride the clutch, rev the tits off it from cold, that sort of thing. If I buy a used car with 1 owner there is a 1 in 10 chance it has had an abusive one drive it. If I buy an ex rental that's been rented by 100 people then it could have had 10 abusive drivers and almost certainly had some. Now whether this logic is sound or not can be argued until the cows come home but I think it's a logic many would subscribe to. And knowing a couple of people who work or have worked in the rental business, how they describe the employees treating the cars would be enough for me to be happy to continue my prejudice against ex rentals.However - just to contradict myself-
Why not give the information that a normal member of the public would like to know?
e.g.
a. This car was owned by an elderly lady vicar.
b. This was a lease car, which we understand was only driven by one person.
c. This was a loan car from Scroggins Panel Repairs, Under The Arches, Scumtown.
When all else fails, what's wrong with the truth?
Why not give the information that a normal member of the public would like to know?
e.g.
a. This car was owned by an elderly lady vicar.
b. This was a lease car, which we understand was only driven by one person.
c. This was a loan car from Scroggins Panel Repairs, Under The Arches, Scumtown.
When all else fails, what's wrong with the truth?
Lengthy thread here from when this first reared it's head.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There is also the question of "owner" - we are the registered keeper of thousands of vehicles, we have title of ownership for many of them, but some are financed, some are contract lease, some are paid for by the European parent company. Therefore we do not have title of ownership to these vehicles, but we are stil responsible for them.
A a large portion of our fleet goes to our customer who will then hand it over to a driver for 12 months, after which we swap it for another that they keep for another 12 months.
The majority of dealer forecourt stock is ex-"fleet" - no dealer group will have 5,000-10,000 vehicles coming of demo each month.
The criteria that we have to meet to get a vehicle back into a dealer group is very stringent - it has to be main dealer serviced on schedule, no block exemption for business users remember, all repairs have to be to manufacturer standard, not insurance standard - there is a significant difference. Manufacturers do not permit more than a skim of filler, insurance companies will allow up to 25mm of filler in some instances!
Rental companies have a duty of care to inspect every vehicle prior to hire - tyres, fluids, service intervals, safty feature operation etc.How many privately owned vehicles are checked this frequently?
I work in the rental supply industry, and happy to confirm, deny or clarify any questions.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
S11Steve said:
Don't forget that many rental companies are supplied with vehicles where the registered keeper is named as the manufacturer, but with the rental company address. When the vehicle is returned to a dealer, it's simply an address change, not a keeper change - and no trace of ERAC etc as the first keeper...
S11Steve said:
It's not just the big nationals that send vehicles back into the dealer network, but many smaller companies will swap their fleet after 6-12 months, and are often registered under abbreviated names or an anonymous sounding Ltd company.
It's the rental cars that have ended up in a dealer via a trade auction that should be of more concern - why did they fail buyback, and not go into the dealer directly?
It's the rental cars that have ended up in a dealer via a trade auction that should be of more concern - why did they fail buyback, and not go into the dealer directly?
S11Steve said:
We get a lot of calls from people who have bought one of our ex-rental fleet, and start asking questions about who hired it. My answer is always truthful - it has had one hirer whilst we were the RK. I can't/won't name our hirers for obvious reasons though
What I can't say is whether our hirer sub-leased it to one driver, or one hundred drivers, but again, the buyback process is very, very stringent. We've had cars rejected because the driver handbook is missing, most vehicles are plugged into a diagnostic device to see if there has been any fault codes rectified, or hidden/altered. Tyre tread depths are measured to see if they are within tolerance of the recorded mileage, and some will check paint depths for evidence of repairs.
Given that the entire industry runs on CAP figures, there is no distinction in price on whether the vehicle was owned by a rental company, a lease company, a drug dealer, a pensioner, a woman, a gender fluid person, if it was used as a taxi, or as an Asian wedding rental, or used on regular track days.What I can't say is whether our hirer sub-leased it to one driver, or one hundred drivers, but again, the buyback process is very, very stringent. We've had cars rejected because the driver handbook is missing, most vehicles are plugged into a diagnostic device to see if there has been any fault codes rectified, or hidden/altered. Tyre tread depths are measured to see if they are within tolerance of the recorded mileage, and some will check paint depths for evidence of repairs.
There is also the question of "owner" - we are the registered keeper of thousands of vehicles, we have title of ownership for many of them, but some are financed, some are contract lease, some are paid for by the European parent company. Therefore we do not have title of ownership to these vehicles, but we are stil responsible for them.
A a large portion of our fleet goes to our customer who will then hand it over to a driver for 12 months, after which we swap it for another that they keep for another 12 months.
The majority of dealer forecourt stock is ex-"fleet" - no dealer group will have 5,000-10,000 vehicles coming of demo each month.
The criteria that we have to meet to get a vehicle back into a dealer group is very stringent - it has to be main dealer serviced on schedule, no block exemption for business users remember, all repairs have to be to manufacturer standard, not insurance standard - there is a significant difference. Manufacturers do not permit more than a skim of filler, insurance companies will allow up to 25mm of filler in some instances!
Rental companies have a duty of care to inspect every vehicle prior to hire - tyres, fluids, service intervals, safty feature operation etc.How many privately owned vehicles are checked this frequently?
I work in the rental supply industry, and happy to confirm, deny or clarify any questions.
The reality is that they described it as one registered keeper because they know that consumers think 1 owner means less possible abuse and therefore it was a positive point - it follows therefore that more than one negative user will be seen as a negative point
Its also worth saying that the law may require disclosure of rental use regardless of whether the one previous keeper point was mentioned at all as its material information much like an insurance write off.
Its also worth saying that the law may require disclosure of rental use regardless of whether the one previous keeper point was mentioned at all as its material information much like an insurance write off.
Mojooo said:
Its also worth saying that the law may require disclosure of rental use regardless of whether the one previous keeper point was mentioned at all as its material information much like an insurance write off.
And then we need to define "rental" - should that include PCP cars? What about Hire Purchase where the user declines the final balloon?
Or is it just daily rental? And how is that defined - I've sent hundreds of vehicles out on hire for an initial one week hire, only for them to stay out with the same driver for 12-18 months.
My personal view is that I would be put off knowing a car was a renal car because that implies
1) Multiple users
2) People ragging it
I probably wouldn't be as fussed if it was just a lease car with one owner but I spose you may never know who the users were if you just have the name of a lease company.
This particular case appears to have concerned a pure rental company so it was probably a bit more clearcut.
1) Multiple users
2) People ragging it
I probably wouldn't be as fussed if it was just a lease car with one owner but I spose you may never know who the users were if you just have the name of a lease company.
This particular case appears to have concerned a pure rental company so it was probably a bit more clearcut.
I'm not sure where people think all of the sub 12-18 month old cars come from? There isn't a used car factory!
And as Steve says, rental could be anything from daily rental to one person using the car for a year or more. And how many people actually rag rental cars? Obviously we have the driving gods on PH who will 4 wheel drift an Astra diesel rental car round every corner.... But on the whole most people drive a rental car the same as they'd drive their own car, sometimes slower as they're not used to driving it.
And as Steve says, rental could be anything from daily rental to one person using the car for a year or more. And how many people actually rag rental cars? Obviously we have the driving gods on PH who will 4 wheel drift an Astra diesel rental car round every corner.... But on the whole most people drive a rental car the same as they'd drive their own car, sometimes slower as they're not used to driving it.
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