Reimbursing a tenant
Discussion
I live abroad and I rent out my old house in the UK through a letting agency on a fully managed service. Last Saturday a contractor appointed by the letting agency visited the property to carry out a gas safety check. After performing the checks, the boiler could not be restarted, leaving the tenant without hot water or heating. His report stated that the reset knob was broken. It was Saturday afternoon and there were none of the agency's regular contractors available to fix the problem.
The tenant was left with no option but to call an emergency plumber. The plumber visited but could not fix the problem and diagnosed it as a faulty circuit board (incorrect). The call out charge + 2 hours labour came to £250 in total which was paid by the tenant.
A contractor has since visited the property and the problem has been confirmed to be a broken reset knob. The switch was physically snapped. The cost to fix this is £125 including parts.
The letting agency contacted me yesterday and asked if I would transfer the £250 directly to the tenant's bank account, instead of knocking it off the monthly rent.
Where do I stand on this? Do I just pay up?
Any advice is much appreciated!
Thanks
The tenant was left with no option but to call an emergency plumber. The plumber visited but could not fix the problem and diagnosed it as a faulty circuit board (incorrect). The call out charge + 2 hours labour came to £250 in total which was paid by the tenant.
A contractor has since visited the property and the problem has been confirmed to be a broken reset knob. The switch was physically snapped. The cost to fix this is £125 including parts.
The letting agency contacted me yesterday and asked if I would transfer the £250 directly to the tenant's bank account, instead of knocking it off the monthly rent.
Where do I stand on this? Do I just pay up?
Any advice is much appreciated!
Thanks
Not much choice on that one, think you can ask the agent to pay them out of the slush fund you usually have as there was not alot they could do but call a contractor despite the fact the contractor could not fix it...
I have other issues with my tenants and the boiler...
I warned my tenants that if the contractor is called out again to do a simple re-pressurise of the system that they would be paying for it if they dont follow the guidelines on how to manually do it... low and behold... They are now complaining as a contractor was called out (3rd time now) and all they did was to re-pressurise the system which takes 10-30 seconds (turn tap to left, leave, turn tap to right) to do and the first two times cost me 100 a visit.
My own agent is trying to side with them, but unfortunately for the agent, they have stated they have an initial policy of troubleshooting issues like this with the tenants, yet if they did that... the agents cant explain why the tenant wasnt advised how to turn the tap on/off (even though they know how), nor why they were not told to do this after the email I sent straight away to the agents when the tenant was complaining about the boiler of:
Im happy to cover the contractors, however, If this is another re-pressurisation of the system which is a 100 GBP charge for 10-30 seconds of work and the tenants have not turned the tap as advised on multiple occasions, the charge as far as Im concerned is theirs/yours for not following due diligence.
I have other issues with my tenants and the boiler...
I warned my tenants that if the contractor is called out again to do a simple re-pressurise of the system that they would be paying for it if they dont follow the guidelines on how to manually do it... low and behold... They are now complaining as a contractor was called out (3rd time now) and all they did was to re-pressurise the system which takes 10-30 seconds (turn tap to left, leave, turn tap to right) to do and the first two times cost me 100 a visit.
My own agent is trying to side with them, but unfortunately for the agent, they have stated they have an initial policy of troubleshooting issues like this with the tenants, yet if they did that... the agents cant explain why the tenant wasnt advised how to turn the tap on/off (even though they know how), nor why they were not told to do this after the email I sent straight away to the agents when the tenant was complaining about the boiler of:
Im happy to cover the contractors, however, If this is another re-pressurisation of the system which is a 100 GBP charge for 10-30 seconds of work and the tenants have not turned the tap as advised on multiple occasions, the charge as far as Im concerned is theirs/yours for not following due diligence.
Yes. Once you've paid the tenant you might try getting the money back from the emergency plumber, as it sounds like they took the piss. You'd probably have to take them to court, so uh, good luck with that.
Never a good idea to knock money off the rent as it might complicate tax/mortgage issues. Keep payments to the tenant separate.
Never a good idea to knock money off the rent as it might complicate tax/mortgage issues. Keep payments to the tenant separate.
I agreed to knock the £250 off the monthly rent, but apparently the tenant needs the money to make it to the end of the month.
The reset knob has been physically snapped/broken. Either the contractor was heavy handed when trying to restart it or the tenant broke it beforehand. My guess is the latter. Is this wear and tear or damage?
I'm miffed about the £250 for a plumber that couldn't fix it and wrongly diagnosed the issue. This was after the letting agency had received a report from their contractor stating the actual problem, and they knew it would need a new part. Really they should have explained it properly to the tenant, instead of leaving the tenant to phone an emergency plumber who would never have been able to fix the problem.
Oh well. Pay up, move on.
The reset knob has been physically snapped/broken. Either the contractor was heavy handed when trying to restart it or the tenant broke it beforehand. My guess is the latter. Is this wear and tear or damage?
I'm miffed about the £250 for a plumber that couldn't fix it and wrongly diagnosed the issue. This was after the letting agency had received a report from their contractor stating the actual problem, and they knew it would need a new part. Really they should have explained it properly to the tenant, instead of leaving the tenant to phone an emergency plumber who would never have been able to fix the problem.
Oh well. Pay up, move on.
jamei303 said:
Yes. Once you've paid the tenant you might try getting the money back from the emergency plumber, as it sounds like they took the piss. You'd probably have to take them to court, so uh, good luck with that.
Never a good idea to knock money off the rent as it might complicate tax/mortgage issues. Keep payments to the tenant separate.
Ah ok, good advice thanks!Never a good idea to knock money off the rent as it might complicate tax/mortgage issues. Keep payments to the tenant separate.
Oz83 said:
I agreed to knock the £250 off the monthly rent, but apparently the tenant needs the money to make it to the end of the month.
The reset knob has been physically snapped/broken. Either the contractor was heavy handed when trying to restart it or the tenant broke it beforehand. My guess is the latter. Is this wear and tear or damage?
I'm miffed about the £250 for a plumber that couldn't fix it and wrongly diagnosed the issue. This was after the letting agency had received a report from their contractor stating the actual problem, and they knew it would need a new part. Really they should have explained it properly to the tenant, instead of leaving the tenant to phone an emergency plumber who would never have been able to fix the problem.
Oh well. Pay up, move on.
Many would struggle to make it to the end of the month if they suddenly have to stump up £250 so no surprise your tenant wants the money ASAP.The reset knob has been physically snapped/broken. Either the contractor was heavy handed when trying to restart it or the tenant broke it beforehand. My guess is the latter. Is this wear and tear or damage?
I'm miffed about the £250 for a plumber that couldn't fix it and wrongly diagnosed the issue. This was after the letting agency had received a report from their contractor stating the actual problem, and they knew it would need a new part. Really they should have explained it properly to the tenant, instead of leaving the tenant to phone an emergency plumber who would never have been able to fix the problem.
Oh well. Pay up, move on.
Your original post says "Last Saturday a contractor appointed by the letting agency visited the property to carry out a gas safety check. After performing the checks, the boiler could not be restarted," so if it was running fine beforehand it sounds like the contractor has broken it. No doubt they will deny it.
paintman said:
Many would struggle to make it to the end of the month if they suddenly have to stump up £250 so no surprise your tenant wants the money ASAP.
Your original post says "Last Saturday a contractor appointed by the letting agency visited the property to carry out a gas safety check. After performing the checks, the boiler could not be restarted," so if it was running fine beforehand it sounds like the contractor has broken it. No doubt they will deny it.
I agree. I also have to find £375 to fix this. Landlords have to eat too. Your original post says "Last Saturday a contractor appointed by the letting agency visited the property to carry out a gas safety check. After performing the checks, the boiler could not be restarted," so if it was running fine beforehand it sounds like the contractor has broken it. No doubt they will deny it.
That was my first thought, and yes he has denied it.
jamei303 said:
If a few hundred quid is a difficulty for you, then you shouldn't be a landlord.
What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
Agree, why do so many landlords grumble when it comes to paying up for things that need doing. Gives landlords generally a bad name. These are things that you should reasonably foresee. Yes some tenants are not at all practical and some don't know how to perform simple tasks like changing a lightbulb, but so long as they pay their rent and generally look after the place then what's the problem? What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
If margins really are that tight being a landlord then perhaps looking at investing your money elsewhere. I ditched my BTL flat 5 years ago and invested the spare cash from the sale into a managed investment fund. Okay so in the last few months the way share prices have fallen I've taken a small hit, but overall I'm still up around 150% of the initial investment. That's a 25% return per year without any of the hassle of BTL. Wish I'd know that 10 years ago - I was getting around a 6% annual return on the BTL! Not worth the effort really.
jamei303 said:
If a few hundred quid is a difficulty for you, then you shouldn't be a landlord.
What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
Out of interest to those that are landlords. If the boiler of your property failed and the tenant was left without heating & hot water for a number of weeks until a new boiler was fitted, would you reduce the rent? And if so by how much, lets say on a % basis to keep things simple.What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
Difficult to answer that without specifics. A landlord should not leave you weeks without a boiler in the first place.
I'm a tenant in a four bed barn conversion, not I would hope, your average scrote renting a cheap property. Anything minor that needs fixing, I'll do it myself. Leaky gutter, downpipe loose, that sort of thing. If the reset button or switch had broken on my boiler, I'd report it and then ask if they wanted me to get a price to fix or would they like to do it. I wouldn't be sat back waiting for the boiler to fail at service. There has to be a bit of two way communication. That said, the first property I rented, it was impossible to get the landlord to do anything that cost any money.
I'm a tenant in a four bed barn conversion, not I would hope, your average scrote renting a cheap property. Anything minor that needs fixing, I'll do it myself. Leaky gutter, downpipe loose, that sort of thing. If the reset button or switch had broken on my boiler, I'd report it and then ask if they wanted me to get a price to fix or would they like to do it. I wouldn't be sat back waiting for the boiler to fail at service. There has to be a bit of two way communication. That said, the first property I rented, it was impossible to get the landlord to do anything that cost any money.
solo2 said:
Out of interest to those that are landlords. If the boiler of your property failed and the tenant was left without heating & hot water for a number of weeks until a new boiler was fitted, would you reduce the rent? And if so by how much, lets say on a % basis to keep things simple.
You can always find someone to change a boiler a hell of a lot quicker than a few weeks; you just need to pay more. If there really was a broken boiler with no hot water or heating in the property for several weeks, particularly in the middle of winter, then I wouldn't charge rent for the entire period as the property would be uninhabitable in that state. That's why I would pay whatever it cost to get a new boiler in within days. I appreciate I might be an unusual landlord, but I would hope that I'm not. I simply treat my tenant as I would like to be treated if I was a tenant.solo2 said:
jamei303 said:
If a few hundred quid is a difficulty for you, then you shouldn't be a landlord.
What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
Out of interest to those that are landlords. If the boiler of your property failed and the tenant was left without heating & hot water for a number of weeks until a new boiler was fitted, would you reduce the rent? And if so by how much, lets say on a % basis to keep things simple.What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
When the boiler on our btl failed we replaced it within a week.
No reason for it to take longer.
It's part of your responsibility as a landlord to provide habitable property. No heating or water in my view is uninhabitable (particularly in winter).
QuickQuack said:
You can always find someone to change a boiler a hell of a lot quicker than a few weeks; you just need to pay more. If there really was a broken boiler with no hot water or heating in the property for several weeks, particularly in the middle of winter, then I wouldn't charge rent for the entire period as the property would be uninhabitable in that state. That's why I would pay whatever it cost to get a new boiler in within days. I appreciate I might be an unusual landlord, but I would hope that I'm not. I simply treat my tenant as I would like to be treated if I was a tenant.
This. We have rented in the past so know what it was like to be a tenant. We had a landlord in the past who was an utter sh*t to us for no good reason. Unfortunately for him it was only after we had our deposit back that he found some unwelcome yet 'accidental' modifications to his property. Had good landlords too and as they respected us, we respected them and their property. Works both ways.keirik said:
solo2 said:
jamei303 said:
If a few hundred quid is a difficulty for you, then you shouldn't be a landlord.
What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
Out of interest to those that are landlords. If the boiler of your property failed and the tenant was left without heating & hot water for a number of weeks until a new boiler was fitted, would you reduce the rent? And if so by how much, lets say on a % basis to keep things simple.What if the boiler dies on Christmas day and you need to find £2k for a new one?
When the boiler on our btl failed we replaced it within a week.
No reason for it to take longer.
It's part of your responsibility as a landlord to provide habitable property. No heating or water in my view is uninhabitable (particularly in winter).
All & all 3 days without a boiler with temporary heat provided. Really couldn't fault the LL or the agency for that.
QuickQuack said:
I appreciate I might be an unusual landlord, but I would hope that I'm not. I simply treat my tenant as I would like to be treated if I was a tenant.
I suspect you might be.We're housing association tenants, so you'd expect them to play the game properly. About 7 years back, as part of green initiatives, they fitted an air source heat pump as the only heating system.
For the past couple of years it's been damn expensive when it gets cold then, last spring, it started venting hot water whenever the tank was heating. They sent out their plumber who fiddled a bit and assured us it was ok. It wasn't. I know enough about plumbing to know that the expansion vessel (sealed system) was faulty, but not enough to change it (at least, not legally!). We chased it, but got nowhere, so ended up through summer relying on the electric shower and kettles.
Then, as the weather started getting cold this year, we found we had no heating at all. Had them called out, and the pump (which had been serviced in Spring) was dead. So they changed that and went away. Still no heating. It also started losing its settings on a random basis. They came out again and found a temp sensor was faulty and claiming it was 42 deg C ambient, so the heating wouldn't turn on. Nothing happened about replacing it, we chased it, they came out 9different guys) and said it was the settings. We said it wasn't, they basically said "let us do our job".
i found the service / repair manual for the pump and discovered that you can force it on with a faulty sensor by running the water heating side continuously - heating demand won't switch it on at high ambient but hot water demand will. This costs an absolute bomb because it has a "top up" immersion heater in the hot water system.
2 months later, we still only have heating if we run the hot water full time & are getting nowhere running round in circles reporting it. Because the work required is "manufacturer's service people only" we don't have the option of calling someone out ourselves.
So, yes, "I wouldn't charge rent & get the boiler sorted ASAP" is a pretty unusual (and admirable) attitude!
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