Greg Knight - Parking (Code of Practice) Bill
Discussion
A subject quite close to my heart - the proposed Bill is getting it's 3rd reading in the commons today before going throughj the Lords.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2017-19/parki...
The early published amendments are indicating that appeals will be handled by one independent body appointed by the Secrety of State - POPLA and IAS
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/...
It has cross party support, and previous readings have been particualrly damning on the indutsry as a whole, with a few usual suspects being specifically called out.
I'm not generally a fan of government interventionism, but in this case it is long overdue. It will be interesting (for me at least!) to see how this affects the industry over the next 12-18 months.
https://services.parliament.uk/Bills/2017-19/parki...
The early published amendments are indicating that appeals will be handled by one independent body appointed by the Secrety of State - POPLA and IAS
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/...
It has cross party support, and previous readings have been particualrly damning on the indutsry as a whole, with a few usual suspects being specifically called out.
I'm not generally a fan of government interventionism, but in this case it is long overdue. It will be interesting (for me at least!) to see how this affects the industry over the next 12-18 months.
The bill is to enable the Secretary of State the ability to create and enforce a code of practice and appeals function that applies to the private operators. This may include setting the charge levy, banning PPC from accessing DVLA information, and make the PPCs liable for any investigation costs following any complaints. UKPC are said to be vehemently against the bill - for obvious reasons...
The specific details of that CoP aren't included in this stage of the bill, but from previous readings many MPs have highlighted the need for central regulation of the industry with many examples of how their constituents have been unfairly affected by the current self-regulation of the industry.
The specific details of that CoP aren't included in this stage of the bill, but from previous readings many MPs have highlighted the need for central regulation of the industry with many examples of how their constituents have been unfairly affected by the current self-regulation of the industry.
Hasn't the problem been that both the IPC and POPLA appeals services are both in bed with the Private Parking Cowboys, both being directly funded by the parking companies yet also expected to remain impartial. Have heard that the IPC in particular are no more than a Kangaroo Court, with a vested interest from Gladstones Solicitors - the solicitor of choice for private parking enforcement. Corruption at its finest!
Also what is the bill going to do regarding the blatant and wholesale selling of drivers personal and private information by the DVLA? Understand why the police, council, insurers etc need to have access to this sensitive information but private parking companies chasing an 'alleged' breach of contract? Very shady ground!
Another thing the bill needs to clamp down on is the frankly intimidating and bullying behavior shown by these companies in chasing down their victims. The scale of intimidation and threats frequently seen is way out of proportion with any alleged parking infringement that has taken place. Disgusting behaviour. Not sure if this is being considered?
Fourthly the Vehicle Keeper being held responsible for an alleged breach of contract entered into by the driver (should the two be different people) fly's in the face of any reasonable logic and fairness.
Also what is the bill going to do regarding the blatant and wholesale selling of drivers personal and private information by the DVLA? Understand why the police, council, insurers etc need to have access to this sensitive information but private parking companies chasing an 'alleged' breach of contract? Very shady ground!
Another thing the bill needs to clamp down on is the frankly intimidating and bullying behavior shown by these companies in chasing down their victims. The scale of intimidation and threats frequently seen is way out of proportion with any alleged parking infringement that has taken place. Disgusting behaviour. Not sure if this is being considered?
Fourthly the Vehicle Keeper being held responsible for an alleged breach of contract entered into by the driver (should the two be different people) fly's in the face of any reasonable logic and fairness.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 November 14:48
Andy20vt said:
Hasn't the problem been that both the IPC and POPLA appeals services are both in bed with the Private Parking Cowboys, both being directly funded by the parking companies yet also expected to remain impartial. Have heard that the IPC in particular are no more than a Kangaroo Court, with a vested interest from Gladstones Solicitors - the solicitor of choice for private parking enforcement. Corruption at its finest!
Correct, especially with Gladstones/Hurley/Davies/IPC/IAS circle of corruption and nepotism. Gladstones approve the signs and wording for the IPC to send out to their members, The same signs that the IAS say are compliant, but the courts often thorw out for being non-conpliant.I do wonder if Gladstones et al are scammeing their own members just as much as they are the consumers/drivers.
Andy20vt said:
Also what is the bill going to do regarding the blatant and wholesale selling of drivers personal and private information by the DVLA? Understand why the police, council, insurers etc need to have access to this sensitive information but private parking companies chasing an 'alleged' breach of contract? Very shady ground!
It was clear from the debate that any breach of the CoP will result in DVLA access being withdrawn. AT the moment, anyone can access the DVLA database with good reason, in theory anyway. the PPC already have to be a member of the BPA or IPC before they can have access, but at the moment it is the BPA & IPC who decide if their own members should be cut off from the DVLA, so hardly impartial.Andy20vt said:
Another thing the bill needs to clamp down on is the frankly intimidating and bullying behavior shown by these companies in chasing down their victims. The scale of intimidation and threats frequently seen is way out of proportion with any alleged parking infringement that has taken place. Disgusting behaviour. Not sure if this is being considered?
This was discussed a lot during the debate - talk of standardised forms, notifications, not being able to sell or assign alleged debts to third parties. Virtually all of the speakers today had a tale from their constituents about the intimidating and threatening harassment they had suffered.The biggest debate was actually to do with the wording of the bill, and whether the Secretary of State "must implement" the CoP, or use "their best endeavours" to implement it...
pavarotti1980 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
From a quick look there is nothing to assist private car park owners/users in that.
Well you will lie in bed with incompetent PPCs though so you havent really been helped {Edited for Steve, to help him with his own minority client]
Edited by Mandalore on Friday 23 November 15:15
Mandalore said:
Well, if you didn't keep parking on private property, we wouldn't need a PPC to deal with morons.
I know that was not aimed at me, but "I", nor the "registered keeper" don't park on private property, yet we are still being accused of being liable for a breach of a spurious contract.And this is one I am dealing with at the moment where I have spoken to the driver to find out more details.
He owns the flat (leasehold) and 2 parking spaces in a residential block (freehold)- it;s on land registry and everything, The management agent have engaged a PPC despite there being no history of parking problems at the site.
My chap has now got 11 tickets for parking in a space that he owns. The management company say they can't intervene, the PPC have refused to deal with him as a driver, because they have already contacted us as registered keeper.
The driver wants to go to the press about this, but I'm holding him back until I've gone right through the appeals process - I am taking these to IAS appeals, because I already know they will be rejected, even if I fully disclose the land registry details.
So is he a moron for parking in his own private space?
Mandalore said:
As you well know, I am obviously talking about the majority of people that deliberately park on private land and by their actions cause everyone to suffer the PPC's.
As you were.
From my experience, it really is nothing to do with the majority, instead a very small minority that have created a huge problem for everyone else. As you were.
S11Steve said:
From my experience, it really is nothing to do with the majority, instead a very small minority that have created a huge problem for everyone else.
I wouldn't even see it as that. The industry has gone beyond simple parking enforcement to being one which is quite predatory by nature. The industry are making money from a problem that often does not exist. Often the parking companies are creating their own restrictions/rules which are unreasonable - e.g. no more than two hours parking at a motorway service station overnight, unless you pay for a whole 24hrs.For example our local Morrisons has a car park which I have NEVER seen more than 2/3rds full, not even on a busy weekend before Xmas. Yet Parking Eye have been just been bought in to enforce a 2 hour parking limit, with no return for 3 hours. ANPR cameras plus CCTV have been erected. No genuine parking problem but I wonder how much money that will make them? I went there the other day, bought our shopping but forgot some crucial ingredients. Had to go back again a second time which is when I noticed the signs/cameras. Will I get a ticket - lets wait and see!
S11Steve said:
Mandalore said:
As you well know, I am obviously talking about the majority of people that deliberately park on private land and by their actions cause everyone to suffer the PPC's.
As you were.
From my experience, it really is nothing to do with the majority, instead a very small minority that have created a huge problem for everyone else. As you were.
Andy20vt said:
Often the parking companies are creating their own restrictions/rules which are unreasonable - e.g. no more than two hours parking at a motorway service station overnight, unless you pay for a whole 24hrs.!
The rules/policy haven't changed in over 50 years on that whatsoever, what has changed is the method of enforcement as tech has changed over the 50 years, it used to be a man in a van collecting cash/clamping on the odd occasion, now more ANPR.Welcome break over the last year or 2 trialed variable parking charges after 2 hrs, there are at least a couple of operators who won't/are unlikely to ticket between midnight am.
It's a balance they usually get right in their provision to provide drivers with somewhere safe to take a break and refresh, whilst ensuring space turnover with the mickeytakers and all day parking car sharers.
Andy20vt said:
I wouldn't even see it as that. The industry has gone beyond simple parking enforcement to being one which is quite predatory by nature. The industry are making money from a problem that often does not exist. Often the parking companies are creating their own restrictions/rules which are unreasonable - e.g. no more than two hours parking at a motorway service station overnight, unless you pay for a whole 24hrs.
For example our local Morrisons has a car park which I have NEVER seen more than 2/3rds full, not even on a busy weekend before Xmas. Yet Parking Eye have been just been bought in to enforce a 2 hour parking limit, with no return for 3 hours. ANPR cameras plus CCTV have been erected. No genuine parking problem but I wonder how much money that will make them? I went there the other day, bought our shopping but forgot some crucial ingredients. Had to go back again a second time which is when I noticed the signs/cameras. Will I get a ticket - lets wait and see!
You seem to think that a PPC can simply install parking enforcement wherever they like. For example our local Morrisons has a car park which I have NEVER seen more than 2/3rds full, not even on a busy weekend before Xmas. Yet Parking Eye have been just been bought in to enforce a 2 hour parking limit, with no return for 3 hours. ANPR cameras plus CCTV have been erected. No genuine parking problem but I wonder how much money that will make them? I went there the other day, bought our shopping but forgot some crucial ingredients. Had to go back again a second time which is when I noticed the signs/cameras. Will I get a ticket - lets wait and see!
Andy20vt said:
For example our local Morrisons has a car park which I have NEVER seen more than 2/3rds full, not even on a busy weekend before Xmas. Yet Parking Eye have been just been bought in to enforce a 2 hour parking limit, with no return for 3 hours. ANPR cameras plus CCTV have been erected. No genuine parking problem but I wonder how much money that will make them? I went there the other day, bought our shopping but forgot some crucial ingredients. Had to go back again a second time which is when I noticed the signs/cameras. Will I get a ticket - lets wait and see!
out of interest, why do you think Morrisons have contracted with the PPC?Our local Asda and Tesco have both implemented maximum 3 hour parking restrictions, because people were parking there all day while they went to work. A retail park near us has also done the same because people were parking there and then going elsewhere all day, making it much harder for the retail park's own customers. Companies don't do it just to be awkward but because people take the mick out of free parking facilities.
Mandalore said:
Well, if you didn't keep parking on private property [that you don't personally own], we wouldn't need a PPC to deal with morons.
{Edited for Steve, to help him with his own minority client]
Amazing how other countries dont seem to have PPCs leeching around despite parking being equally difficult.{Edited for Steve, to help him with his own minority client]
Edited by Mandalore on Friday 23 November 15:15
Do you honestly think that the country would grind to a halt if PPCs disappeared?
Countdown said:
out of interest, why do you think Morrisons have contracted with the PPC?
Because Parking Eye have paid them handsomely for the national contract. It's nothing to do with individual store or locations, many of whom do not have an issueSame as Mitchells and Butler pub chain have a national contract with Euro Car Parks - not every site was affected by parking issues, but it's becoming clear now that problems are being caused where none existed before. Individual locatoons are being slated on TripAdvisor for £100 charges being dished out to genuine customers.
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