Smart motorway Lane & Speed Limit

[jerrin91]

Hello pistonians,

Just a quick question.. looking at this picture, gantry shows no speed limit above lane 1 however a speed limit of 40 applies for lane 2 and 3.. does this mean the speed limit of 40 doesn't apply to lane 1 n the lane 1 can continue to drive at NSL? Cheers

Just a quick question

[No ideas for a name]

As far as I am aware (from other postings and discussion on Pepipoo), Highways England think that can't happen.

Advice would be to treat it as 40 in each lane as that is what is most likely meant.
HE say it can't happen, so they claimed that NONE of the limits would be enforcable.
Some logic would say in theory you could have different limits in different lanes, but you would expect the lowest to be in the left most lane (Unless it was at a merge/diverge point and the signs referred to different routes)

[xjay1337]

Interesting predicament.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

Treat it as a faulty sign & drive at 40.

Common sense says it can't be safe to do anything else. (from a safety perspective)

[Gafferjim]

Speed limit applies to all lanes, broken signal in lane 1. They do go faulty from time to time and need maintenance, you put your TV outside for a spell and see how long it will last.

[jerrin91]

Thank you.. makes sense now...I had a feeling it was broken but having come across this situation few times before I just wanted to ask n make sure the deal behind it

Gafferjim said:

Speed limit applies to all lanes, broken signal in lane 1. They do go faulty from time to time and need maintenance, you put your TV outside for a spell and see how long it will last.

[Lemming Train]

Gafferjim said:

Speed limit applies to all lanes, broken signal in lane 1. They do go faulty from time to time and need maintenance, you put your TV outside for a spell and see how long it will last.

The centre matrix (lane 2) on the gantry at J28 M62 Tingley eastbound just prior to the exit slip has been out for YEARS!

[Mr Tidy]

Lemming Train said:

The centre matrix (lane 2) on the gantry at J28 M62 Tingley eastbound just prior to the exit slip has been out for YEARS!

Just curious, but have you reported it?

[ghe13rte]

I very much doubt that HE say “it can’t happen”, I think they are saying “it won’t be done on purpose”.

Anyway, back to the question. 40mph applies to the whole carriageway, not just lanes 2 & 3.

[Lemming Train]

Mr Tidy said:

Lemming Train said:

The centre matrix (lane 2) on the gantry at J28 M62 Tingley eastbound just prior to the exit slip has been out for YEARS!

Just curious, but have you reported it?

Yep.

[BertBert]

Gafferjim said:

Speed limit applies to all lanes, broken signal in lane 1. They do go faulty from time to time and need maintenance, you put your TV outside for a spell and see how long it will last.

Do you have any references that show that? I have yet to see anything that makes the statement that three signs apply to 4 lanes. Apart from as posted as opinion.

Or put it another way, how many motorists have been convicted of exceeding the limit when it wasn't signed above that lane?

I am off the opinion that the limit in force and enforced in that lane is not 40.

Bert

[bigandclever]

BertBert said:

Gafferjim said:

Speed limit applies to all lanes, broken signal in lane 1. They do go faulty from time to time and need maintenance, you put your TV outside for a spell and see how long it will last.

Do you have any references that show that? I have yet to see anything that makes the statement that three signs apply to 4 lanes. Apart from as posted as opinion.

Or put it another way, how many motorists have been convicted of exceeding the limit when it wasn't signed above that lane?

I am off the opinion that the limit in force and enforced in that lane is not 40.

Bert

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140721115359/http://www.highways.gov.uk/our-road-network/managing-our-roads/improving-our-network/smart-motorways/variable-speed-enforcement-on-smart-motorways-frequently-asked-questions/

7. There was no speed limit show­ing above my lane, so the national speed limit applied, even though other lanes had over­head signs show­ing a lower limit.

Pro­vid­ing a valid manda­tory speed limit is prop­erly dis­played for the car­riage­way (not nec­es­sar­ily over each indi­vid­ual lane), that limit will apply to all lanes

[BertBert]

Excellent, that's a good find. Is there actually a current version I wonder. Not one archived in 2014.
I am interested in the other part of my question. How many people have been prosecuted in those circumstances.
Bert

[speedking31]

@ghe13rte has previously clarified that a blank matrix is not a sign. Therefore the speed limit for that lane is whatever the previous speed limit was defined as. If this is the first limit defined in a set then the limit must be NSL. If the previous gantry showed 50 then the limit is still 50 and if it was 40 then the limit is 40.

Highways England said:

In terms of enforcement, the speed cameras will only be activated where a vehicle’s speed exceeds that displayed on the sign or, when no speed is displayed, the national speed limit.

@GafferJim, I suspect that the design criteria for an indoor TV are somewhat different to those for an item that will be exposed to the elements.

[ghe13rte]

speedking31 said:

@GafferJim, I suspect that the design criteria for an indoor TV are somewhat different to those for an item that will be exposed to the elements.

You recall correctly sir. Unfortunately your interpretation of the other 2 signs visible above lanes 2 and 3 and the extinguished signs is wrong. The illuminated signs above lanes 2 and 3, the speed limit signs, apply to the carriageway above which they sit NOT the lane.
Keep up.

[craigjm]

BertBert said:

Do you have any references that show that? I have yet to see anything that makes the statement that three signs apply to 4 lanes. Apart from as posted as opinion.

Or put it another way, how many motorists have been convicted of exceeding the limit when it wasn't signed above that lane?

I am off the opinion that the limit in force and enforced in that lane is not 40.

Bert

Right... so you’re driving down a dual carriageway and there is a sign on the left saying 50. Does that mean it doesn’t apply to the right hand lane? Don’t be stupid

[V8LM]

OT: I was travelling down the M1 a year or so ago and three of the gantry signs displayed 40 and one 50. Took a photo but none of the signs were visible.

ETA: How time flies and memory fails. It was 4 years ago, it was 30 and 40, and the signs were visible, just:

IMG_1531 by v8lemon, on Flickr

Edited by V8LM on Sunday 25th November 09:32

[littleredrooster]

I think that, with all the misunderstanding about this particular scenario, HE may have been better off using ONE large sign above the carriageway (like the variable section of the M1 in Yorkshire) except where required for dedicated slip-road. No dispute then, and much cheaper gantries, I suspect.

[craigjm]

littleredrooster said:

I think that, with all the misunderstanding about this particular scenario, HE may have been better off using ONE large sign above the carriageway (like the variable section of the M1 in Yorkshire) except where required for dedicated slip-road. No dispute then, and much cheaper gantries, I suspect.

The signs are multi use though so they are above each lane to show lane closures etc

[speedking31]

But if their only purpose is to indicate a limit that applies across the carriageway then why not just illuminate a single sign? Then it's more consistent with non-motorways. Also gives a couple of spares if one is faulty.