London taxi protests
Discussion
Heading down to London Bridge station on a Boris Bike this week I came across an utter snarl-up as black cabs were blocking London Bridge.
Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
divetheworld said:
Blocking the road and blowing red lights are all offences. But ignoring a red light is an immediate hazard to people and likely to result in road traffic collisions and the taxi's were an inconvenience?
I think its called risk assessment.
I think I can see what happened there, you struggled with some of the words.I think its called risk assessment.
No, picking your way through a logjam, carefully, is not a risk.
James_B said:
Heading down to London Bridge station on a Boris Bike this week I came across an utter snarl-up as black cabs were blocking London Bridge.
Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
Protests marches and processions block the road from time to time. They are protected under article 11 and allowed under the excuse exceptions to the highways act. Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
Red lights however still something to pay attention to. I expect the fact the officer was shouting rather than stopping and dealing with them all was partly in recognition of everything that was going on.
So in summary, on these occasions, only the cyclists were breaking the law.
Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 29th November 19:59
James_B said:
Heading down to London Bridge station on a Boris Bike this week I came across an utter snarl-up as black cabs were blocking London Bridge.
Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
I'm not sure why the situation made it OK to ignore red lights? Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
Countdown said:
James_B said:
Heading down to London Bridge station on a Boris Bike this week I came across an utter snarl-up as black cabs were blocking London Bridge.
Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
I'm not sure why the situation made it OK to ignore red lights? Given the total ham, I and other cyclists were picking our way through the melee looking out for cars, bikes, pedestrians, digs, other cyclists etc. but not paying any attention to the lights.
At the bottom of Gracechurch Street there was a PC screaming abuse at the bikes that had passed a red light while completely ignoring the arses blocking the bridge. I politely suggested she be a bit more polite to people making the best of a bad situation, and went on my way but what’s the situation regarding the taxis? Were they committing an offence, and instead of harassing those affected could the police have been collecting evidence for ticketing them later?
Has a cyclist ever stopped at a red light?
Absolutely awful for it around here. Won't be long until I collect one as a bonnet ornament, hopefully that'll teach the rest of the lycra-clad berk brigade not to sail on through as if it's green.
I know it's not all of them, but it's a huge problem.
Absolutely awful for it around here. Won't be long until I collect one as a bonnet ornament, hopefully that'll teach the rest of the lycra-clad berk brigade not to sail on through as if it's green.
I know it's not all of them, but it's a huge problem.
Dammit said:
Is this the taxi study that showed more cars jumping the red than cyclists, when the video evidence was studied?
A fantastic own goal, that.
I seriously doubt it not from the quick scan I did. It is 2 1 hour videos that show 194 out of 364 bikes so that would be an awful lot of red lights for cars. They are still on line so easy to check. It certainly wasn't 53 percent of cars. A fantastic own goal, that.
Dammit said:
It's a problem because?
Aside from it's illegal. Other vehicles and bikes may follow through without realising that they need to take care, foreign riders won't realise red lights count for cyclists and it gives the anti cycling lobby an easy win. A majority of the public already want more controls so this is not a good thing. Empirically cycling, on the roads, is not beneficial so, for those of us who want to continue doing it, it relies heavily on popularity, public opinion, collateral benefits and subjective support.Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 29th November 22:59
Thing is though there are nuances to this that are always missed. If the going through the red light genuinely didn't inconvenience anyone else then is it really an issue? If however the RLJ'ing was into green lit traffic or pedestrians on crossings it's clearly not sensible or sane. Either way it is illegal and I suspect those doing it wouldn't do so if they were more traceable... no I'm not suggesting numberplates, just stating the obvious!
As for the taxi drivers protesting what were they whinging about this time? London really is a despicable place to try and move around!
As for the taxi drivers protesting what were they whinging about this time? London really is a despicable place to try and move around!
James_B said:
I think I can see what happened there, you struggled with some of the words.
No, picking your way through a logjam, carefully, is not a risk.
Monument. I work near there. There are always a lot of pedestrians. Always. No, picking your way through a logjam, carefully, is not a risk.
If the lights are red for road traffic, the lights will be green for pedestrians.
Did this occur on a day of total post apocalyptic, body snatching, alien invasion event? Such that the multitude of pedestrians which have been there every single time I've ever been to Monument were just not there they day you decided you would just ignore traffic lights?
creampuff said:
If the lights are red for road traffic, the lights will be green for pedestrians.
Did this occur on a day of total post apocalyptic, body snatching, alien invasion event? Such that the multitude of pedestrians which have been there every single time I've ever been to Monument were just not there they day you decided you would just ignore traffic lights?
Did this occur on a day of total post apocalyptic, body snatching, alien invasion event? Such that the multitude of pedestrians which have been there every single time I've ever been to Monument were just not there they day you decided you would just ignore traffic lights?
I work near Tooley street, as blocked by the cabs a couple of nights ago; and I cross the road there using pedestrian crossings in the Morning and Evening. I've never nearly been taken out by a car whilst crossing with the lights in my favour, but have been near missed / yelled at by cyclists for getting in their way (When the light has changed in favour of the pedestrians!)
There are a tolerable ~25% of cyclists that will stop for the pedestrian crossing, and pass once pedestrians are clear (Even though the light has not yet changed in their favour - I'd say that's a fair cop.) 65% will happily sit out the duration of the red light, and continue upon change - Perfectly good, but this does leave the objectionable 10% that lack the ability to yield to signals or display common courtesy, and simply weave through / near miss pedestrians on the crossing.
Retroman said:
It always amazes me at all the drivers that get annoyed when cyclists go through a red light, even when the road is clear but simultaneously ignore fellow drivers who do things like break the speed limit, go through lights just as they turn red or park on double yellow lines.
Why make the assumption that we're ignoring the latter? And why try to make drivers out to be irrational beasts by biasing the comparison - if you'd expressed amazement at how drivers can get annoyed at cyclists blatantly running red lights which have been on red for several seconds, because they're then capable of ignoring other drivers who also blatantly run red lights which have been on red for several seconds, then you'd be so wide of the mark it wouldn't even be funny.So, you say that you were distracted and forgot about the lights that you see every single day.
Well, its lucky the copper was there then, to stop you making an even bigger tool of yourself by getting run over.
53% of bikes in London is probably excessive during peak times, but the percentages are a magnitude higher than the percentage of other road users.
Well, its lucky the copper was there then, to stop you making an even bigger tool of yourself by getting run over.
53% of bikes in London is probably excessive during peak times, but the percentages are a magnitude higher than the percentage of other road users.
twister said:
Retroman said:
It always amazes me at all the drivers that get annoyed when cyclists go through a red light, even when the road is clear but simultaneously ignore fellow drivers who do things like break the speed limit, go through lights just as they turn red or park on double yellow lines.
Why make the assumption that we're ignoring the latter? And why try to make drivers out to be irrational beasts by biasing the comparison - if you'd expressed amazement at how drivers can get annoyed at cyclists blatantly running red lights which have been on red for several seconds, because they're then capable of ignoring other drivers who also blatantly run red lights which have been on red for several seconds, then you'd be so wide of the mark it wouldn't even be funny.They don't care that they never asked the question, and this its untrue. The fiction allows them to justify breaking the law and point fingers any everyone else.
Retroman said:
It always amazes me at all the drivers that get annoyed when cyclists go through a red light, even when the road is clear but simultaneously ignore fellow drivers who do things like break the speed limit, go through lights just as they turn red or park on double yellow lines.
This breaking the speed limit argument always amuses me. I am constantly being told by the cycling contingent of here how most cyclists are also drivers so do they not speed when driving as if they do by this logic what right do they have to criticise drivers for close passes etc.The real flaw with this argument is there is no allowance for degrees of infringement. Many of us do 10mph or so over on the motorway and I think that is a lot safer than cycling through a red light into pedestrians or traffic. However I also think cycling through a red light when the road is empty is a heck of a lot safer (and no big deal btw) than doing 50mph outside a school at kicking out time.
Trouble is these sort of things don't help the cyclists' argument in this case so they are ignored and the implication is if you speed you can't criticise anything they do. It's clearly not sensible to make such a blanket argument, but usually these discussions have descended into a one side vs the other by then anyway so anything goes it seems!
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