Non motoring law help please
Discussion
What ho chaps, I wonder if anyone has any experience of this situation.
My mother in law has sadly passed away.
Her will has been read, and it is very fair and simple, except for my brother in law.
The will says that her house must be sold as soon as possible, the three children have to open a bank account, the proceeds from the sale and the rest of her estate must be deposited here, and then split between the three children.
My brother in law is sixty years old, has been unemployed for about the last twenty years, and has lived at my mother in laws house for at least the last thirty years .
The two daughters have power of attorney over her financial affairs and have had for a few years due to dementia.
They have had to help my brother in law financially for the last few months, as my mother in law became so ill that she needed to go into a nursing home, and on his unemployment benefit he couldn't afford to pay the bills.
It was suggested he go and see the council to see what accommodation they could offer him once the house has been sold.
He has come back and said they've told him to stay where he is, as no court in the land would evict him !
He has asked my wife if she'd help him with the bills and view the arrangement as an investment, she has said no.
My wife is going to speak to the solicitor who is dealing with the will tomorrow.
So, any experience anyone ?
My mother in law has sadly passed away.
Her will has been read, and it is very fair and simple, except for my brother in law.
The will says that her house must be sold as soon as possible, the three children have to open a bank account, the proceeds from the sale and the rest of her estate must be deposited here, and then split between the three children.
My brother in law is sixty years old, has been unemployed for about the last twenty years, and has lived at my mother in laws house for at least the last thirty years .
The two daughters have power of attorney over her financial affairs and have had for a few years due to dementia.
They have had to help my brother in law financially for the last few months, as my mother in law became so ill that she needed to go into a nursing home, and on his unemployment benefit he couldn't afford to pay the bills.
It was suggested he go and see the council to see what accommodation they could offer him once the house has been sold.
He has come back and said they've told him to stay where he is, as no court in the land would evict him !
He has asked my wife if she'd help him with the bills and view the arrangement as an investment, she has said no.
My wife is going to speak to the solicitor who is dealing with the will tomorrow.
So, any experience anyone ?
Nigel Worc's said:
They have had to help my brother in law financially for the last few months, as my mother in law became so ill that she needed to go into a nursing home, and on his unemployment benefit he couldn't afford to pay the bills.
From what you said above, even if your b-i-l was to remain in the house rent free he couldn't afford to pay the bills, so that's not going to an option for him for any length of time, is it.Once the house is sold he will at least have some money with which to pay a deposit and rent on a privately rented property. Once the money runs out it's back to the council. I suppose.
Depending on the sums of money involved, and depending on his sisters' desire to help him would it be mutually beneficial for the sisters to buy a smaller house with their shares and rent it to their brother? Once his money runs out / runs low presumably the council will pay Housing Benefit so the sisters would continue to get some income?
Firstly do not go to court over this because any legal action will result in a huge bill and the only winner will be the lawyers. The first consultation will be free and then they will assess how much they can make out of you.
Secondly, the executors of the Will are entitled to dispose of the assests as requested by the deceased person. However, Probate may be required before they can do this.
"Probate is required when an estate's assets are solely in the deceased's name. In most cases, if the deceased owned property that had no other names attached, an estate must go through probate in order to transfer the property into the name(s) of any beneficiaries."
There may also be inheritance tax.
Your brother in law will claim that he has looked after your mother while living there and provided years of care, it was a full time job which curtailed his life and so should be allowed to stay in the house as it is his home. Courts are sympathetic to this but will still want the Will followed.
Personally I think you are between a rock and a hard place.
I'd come to some arrangement whereby the house is held in trust for the three siblings. He is allowed to live in the house on the condition he keeps it maintained and pays a small rental through benefits but that when he is deceased the property is divided by the family. You can also help to maintain it but keep receipts.
Suggest the house is done up and rooms rented out to provide income. Depending on the area, house size, it could net £300 per month per room. Everybody wins.
You should also register an interest on the house at the Land Registry so he can't sell it without you knowing about it.
The bottom line is try really hard to come to an arrangement, once you start down a legal route it will cost you so much money you'll have to sell the house and your house to pay the bill and no one wins in the end.
Secondly, the executors of the Will are entitled to dispose of the assests as requested by the deceased person. However, Probate may be required before they can do this.
"Probate is required when an estate's assets are solely in the deceased's name. In most cases, if the deceased owned property that had no other names attached, an estate must go through probate in order to transfer the property into the name(s) of any beneficiaries."
There may also be inheritance tax.
Your brother in law will claim that he has looked after your mother while living there and provided years of care, it was a full time job which curtailed his life and so should be allowed to stay in the house as it is his home. Courts are sympathetic to this but will still want the Will followed.
Personally I think you are between a rock and a hard place.
I'd come to some arrangement whereby the house is held in trust for the three siblings. He is allowed to live in the house on the condition he keeps it maintained and pays a small rental through benefits but that when he is deceased the property is divided by the family. You can also help to maintain it but keep receipts.
Suggest the house is done up and rooms rented out to provide income. Depending on the area, house size, it could net £300 per month per room. Everybody wins.
You should also register an interest on the house at the Land Registry so he can't sell it without you knowing about it.
The bottom line is try really hard to come to an arrangement, once you start down a legal route it will cost you so much money you'll have to sell the house and your house to pay the bill and no one wins in the end.
Edited by LarsG on Monday 3rd December 23:49
Edited by LarsG on Monday 3rd December 23:54
Similar thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/1126083...
Summary seems to be that the Daughter-in-Laws who are in charge of probate should get Legal advise. They can force the brother-in-law to be evicted/sell if the Will does not mention him being able to remain/live in the property.
IANAL.
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/1126083...
Summary seems to be that the Daughter-in-Laws who are in charge of probate should get Legal advise. They can force the brother-in-law to be evicted/sell if the Will does not mention him being able to remain/live in the property.
IANAL.
I assume the solicitor is the executor, so it's really their problem, that's what you pay them for.
Nobody can sell the house without probate.
If will says house must be sold immediately ( which is a strange request) you can't rent it out and even if you did it would be a legal minefield, are you willing to be a landlord of a HMO with all the responsibilties that entails.
Council's advice translates to 'go away we can't help you', a court could and would enforce a sale, particularly as he can't even afford to live there and pay the bills.
Nobody can sell the house without probate.
If will says house must be sold immediately ( which is a strange request) you can't rent it out and even if you did it would be a legal minefield, are you willing to be a landlord of a HMO with all the responsibilties that entails.
Council's advice translates to 'go away we can't help you', a court could and would enforce a sale, particularly as he can't even afford to live there and pay the bills.
I'm not a lawyer but have had to deal with my mother's estate and was an executor for my best friend's mother's estate. I would suggest that before seeing any lawyers about this, the siblings need to work out what they want and why. As I understand it, the executor(s) do not necessarily have to follow the letter of the will if they so wish and beneficiaries may be able to utilise their inheritance in ways other than specified in the will. Therefore, it should be possible not to sell the property if all the siblings agree.
The issue here is what everyone wants, why and what the consequences of each option would be. Your brother-in-law wants to be able to carry on living in the property, that much is obvious and understandable, but what do your wife and sister-in-law want? Do they just want the money or do they think they're somehow fulfilling their late mother's request? To be honest, if it was my sister, there's no way on earth I would do anything to evict her; and if it happened to one of my sisters-in-law, I would do all I could to persuade my wife not to evict her sisters. Every family is different so your wife's siblings may not be as close to each other, and the financial situations of any set of siblings are unlikely to be similar, but the sentiment would still be the same. If the sisters are doing ok financially, and the brother isn't a tosser of the highest order, why make a family member homeless? With the same token, if the sisters need their share of the inheritance to fend off the bailiffs themselves, then the brother should be the one offering to move out. Somewhere in between those extremes will be the actual situation.
The cheapest option would be for the siblings to sit down together, where each must accept that compromises will be necessary, agree what to do whether that's to follow the will or not, then pay a lawyer to process the paperwork to achive that agreement. If the siblings start suing each other, my guess would be that more than half the value of the house, if not more of it, would disappear down the drain with everyone being poorer.
This isn't legal advice and IANAL, but before anyone starts chucking money away getting legal advice, quite a bit of talking should be done by the siblings.
The issue here is what everyone wants, why and what the consequences of each option would be. Your brother-in-law wants to be able to carry on living in the property, that much is obvious and understandable, but what do your wife and sister-in-law want? Do they just want the money or do they think they're somehow fulfilling their late mother's request? To be honest, if it was my sister, there's no way on earth I would do anything to evict her; and if it happened to one of my sisters-in-law, I would do all I could to persuade my wife not to evict her sisters. Every family is different so your wife's siblings may not be as close to each other, and the financial situations of any set of siblings are unlikely to be similar, but the sentiment would still be the same. If the sisters are doing ok financially, and the brother isn't a tosser of the highest order, why make a family member homeless? With the same token, if the sisters need their share of the inheritance to fend off the bailiffs themselves, then the brother should be the one offering to move out. Somewhere in between those extremes will be the actual situation.
The cheapest option would be for the siblings to sit down together, where each must accept that compromises will be necessary, agree what to do whether that's to follow the will or not, then pay a lawyer to process the paperwork to achive that agreement. If the siblings start suing each other, my guess would be that more than half the value of the house, if not more of it, would disappear down the drain with everyone being poorer.
This isn't legal advice and IANAL, but before anyone starts chucking money away getting legal advice, quite a bit of talking should be done by the siblings.
I would imagine that your wife and her sister would quite like to inherit the cash ASAP, which is entirely normal - their brother is going to hold up the process.
What sort of value is the house and in what part of the country? More practical advice could be given knowing this.
I guess one way might be to make the brother a loan to enable him to move out into rented accommodation? The loan would be paid back when the estate has paid out. Or you could buy him out of his third? On the condition you have vacant possession?
Leaving him in situ would be a pretty awful outcome and only lead to friction as he's holding up their inheritance. He could go on living there for 20 years or more.
I am not sure the 'law' has many remedies here (I am not a lawyer, but am an executor). I would imagine he is entitled to live there but would have to pay rent to the other two owners? What would a mortgage company do in such a situation - they'd be pretty brutal I imagine.
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