Section 5 firearms certificate random question
Discussion
I've done a lot of rifle shooting in the past, mainly with cadets and the military so have never really looked deeply into firearms licensing here in the UK as I've never had a need to. And when I've wanted to do pistol shooting, it's obviously been done abroad
But I was idly googling the other week and found out that strictly speaking, pistols (i.e. the Section 5 type firearms such as Glocks, Berettas etc, not the massive long ones with welded on bits that don't fall foul of firearms laws here) are not technically completely banned for a Joe Bloggs civilian to own. In theory, you can have a Section 5 firearms licence, it's just it seems the criteria to apply for and hold one are so strict that to all intents and purposes it's impossible to get a licence. I believe you have to be a firearms "collector" (or in a non "Jo Bloggs" type situation, an RFD, museum or company doing research or similar) to qualify.
What I also discovered to my surprise is that in Northern Ireland, the aforementioned pistols are in fact legal to own as Jo Bloggs, so long as you apply for a slot on your FAC in the normal fashion! And you can even cite self-defense as a reason (which is obvs a big no-no in rUK). Bizarre as I thought the last place you'd want non-state actors running around with these types of weapons would be NI. But then much of firearms legislation in the UK doesn't make much sense to me anyway. But I digress....
So far so clear(ish). So I was wondering, can anyone explain why there appear to be 50+ of these S5 pistols (and more S5 rifle stuff like .22 conversion kits of HK G3s) available on Gunstar for sale? I'm assuming that companies doing testing, museums etc aren't really going to be buying their S5 firearms and parts on there. And given that it would appear that only a very small number of people who aren't companies/museums etc hold S5 licenses, who is it that buys these items? Collectors aren't allowed to fire their S5 firearms (even if they could get the ammo from what I understand), so it seems unlikely to be them? And can't all be people in NI right?!
I guess what I'm trying to understand is how there seems to be a reasonably robust trade in S5 firearms, yet a vanishingly small number of individual people who are allowed to own them! Can anyone shed any light? Anyone in the business here?
But I was idly googling the other week and found out that strictly speaking, pistols (i.e. the Section 5 type firearms such as Glocks, Berettas etc, not the massive long ones with welded on bits that don't fall foul of firearms laws here) are not technically completely banned for a Joe Bloggs civilian to own. In theory, you can have a Section 5 firearms licence, it's just it seems the criteria to apply for and hold one are so strict that to all intents and purposes it's impossible to get a licence. I believe you have to be a firearms "collector" (or in a non "Jo Bloggs" type situation, an RFD, museum or company doing research or similar) to qualify.
What I also discovered to my surprise is that in Northern Ireland, the aforementioned pistols are in fact legal to own as Jo Bloggs, so long as you apply for a slot on your FAC in the normal fashion! And you can even cite self-defense as a reason (which is obvs a big no-no in rUK). Bizarre as I thought the last place you'd want non-state actors running around with these types of weapons would be NI. But then much of firearms legislation in the UK doesn't make much sense to me anyway. But I digress....
So far so clear(ish). So I was wondering, can anyone explain why there appear to be 50+ of these S5 pistols (and more S5 rifle stuff like .22 conversion kits of HK G3s) available on Gunstar for sale? I'm assuming that companies doing testing, museums etc aren't really going to be buying their S5 firearms and parts on there. And given that it would appear that only a very small number of people who aren't companies/museums etc hold S5 licenses, who is it that buys these items? Collectors aren't allowed to fire their S5 firearms (even if they could get the ammo from what I understand), so it seems unlikely to be them? And can't all be people in NI right?!
I guess what I'm trying to understand is how there seems to be a reasonably robust trade in S5 firearms, yet a vanishingly small number of individual people who are allowed to own them! Can anyone shed any light? Anyone in the business here?
There is a market and it’s bigger than you think. It also exists not only in NI but in the CI and IoM. It’s fairly low key for obvious reasons but there is also trade in private security (offshore) and boats leaving the
U.K. that sail to the more dangerous parts of the world. If you won the lottery and spunked £20 million on a yacht to sail round the world would you go without the means to protect yourself ? It’s no good dialling 999.
U.K. that sail to the more dangerous parts of the world. If you won the lottery and spunked £20 million on a yacht to sail round the world would you go without the means to protect yourself ? It’s no good dialling 999.
Ziplobb said:
There is a market and it’s bigger than you think. It also exists not only in NI but in the CI and IoM. It’s fairly low key for obvious reasons but there is also trade in private security (offshore) and boats leaving the
U.K. that sail to the more dangerous parts of the world. If you won the lottery and spunked £20 million on a yacht to sail round the world9 would you go without the means to protect yourself ? It’s no good dialling 999.
Interesting. Can you or anyone else shed light on the (international?) laws regarding having firearms on a vessel in international waters? Presumably there's then a problem of what to do when you want dock in say the Solent but have a Glock 17 on board...U.K. that sail to the more dangerous parts of the world. If you won the lottery and spunked £20 million on a yacht to sail round the world9 would you go without the means to protect yourself ? It’s no good dialling 999.
Brads67 said:
Widely used by deer stalkers and terrier men who dig to foxes.
Certain forces are a proper dick about it though and blatantly ignore home office guidelines on the issue of sec5.
I thought those were the pistols that were limited to 2 shots, were for humane dispatch and didn't fall under S5?Certain forces are a proper dick about it though and blatantly ignore home office guidelines on the issue of sec5.
Brads67 said:
Not a problem. You will be a legal holder of a sec5 cert and gun. No issue.
But how would you go about getting an S5 licence? Presumably giving the reason as "I'm rich and occasionally sail through unsavoury waters on by £50M yacht" doesn't really fly with UK police forces...? EDIT: guess you've already answered my question, you'd ensure you were resident in CI or similar
Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 5th January 20:08
Brads67 said:
You are aware that pistols were never banned ?
They simply removed target shooting as a reason to own.
Yes ref never banned, as of a few weeks ago They simply removed target shooting as a reason to own.
But if they just removed "target shooting" as a reason, why are pistols S5 and not S1. Strictly speaking, it seems they're not prohibited (which seems to be the definition of an S5 firearm), just "hard to justify owning".I'm not trying to be contrary or anything, just genuinely curious!
Mario149 said:
But how would you go about getting an S5 licence? Presumably giving the reason as "I'm rich and occasionally sail through unsavoury waters on by £50M yacht" doesn't really fly with UK police forces...?
EDIT: guess you've already answered my question, you'd ensure you were resident in CI or similar
the old bill don’t do section 5 it’s the home office usually signed off by home sec EDIT: guess you've already answered my question, you'd ensure you were resident in CI or similar
Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 5th January 20:08
Ziplobb said:
Mario149 said:
But how would you go about getting an S5 licence? Presumably giving the reason as "I'm rich and occasionally sail through unsavoury waters on by £50M yacht" doesn't really fly with UK police forces...?
EDIT: guess you've already answered my question, you'd ensure you were resident in CI or similar
the old bill don’t do section 5 it’s the home office usually signed off by home sec EDIT: guess you've already answered my question, you'd ensure you were resident in CI or similar
Edited by Mario149 on Saturday 5th January 20:08
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-or-manage-a-...
S5 is pretty much practically open to companies with good reason rather than individuals.
S5 is pretty much practically open to companies with good reason rather than individuals.
stable signs it using home office guidelines to issue.Graveworm said:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/apply-for-or-manage-a-...
S5 is pretty much practically open to companies with good reason rather than individuals.
Nope.S5 is pretty much practically open to companies with good reason rather than individuals.
That is not the advice for sec5 issue it's guidance for someone opening a museum or suchlike.
Yup, looked again. It's advice aimed at folk looking to run a museum or manage a shooting club.
It;s not the guidance for individuals looking to obtain a sec5 cert.
That website is throwing you at that section but it is not aimed at individuals.
There used to be a page offering advice for sec5 applicants. If I find it i'll post a link.
Bare in mind I'm in Scotland as well.
It;s not the guidance for individuals looking to obtain a sec5 cert.
That website is throwing you at that section but it is not aimed at individuals.
There used to be a page offering advice for sec5 applicants. If I find it i'll post a link.
Bare in mind I'm in Scotland as well.
Edited by Brads67 on Saturday 5th January 22:11
Edited by Brads67 on Saturday 5th January 22:14
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