USA - ESTA expiring and still want to remain in the USA
Discussion
I suspect I already know the answer to this, but here goes ...
My son is in the USA on ESTA, which expires in a month. He is self employed YouTube etc and essentially can work/vlog etc from anywhere he wants. He is still performing his daily social media work while on vacation (as you would expect due to nature of the self employment). This in itself is not an issue.
This issue is that he's made really good connections with others of the same ilk while he's been in the USA and does not want to have to leave. The contacts are all now working together creating a new brand, which in turn is generating new levels of income all round. Although this in itself is probably a bit "grey" in nature as rules were created before these type of "jobs" ever existed, it's not really the issue as such.
The nub of the issue is that at present he would need to leave and probably have to wait 90 days before reentering, probably to a lot of questions, with a good % chance of being refused entry.
There is no real visa type that supports the ecom/social/youtube work that he performs to then come back toe the UK and apply for. Investment tier visas have been considered, but it's felt that a 20 yr old may fall foul of this due to the unlikely situation of having 500k spare. A T2 tourist visa may be doable as he does have enough funds to support a 6 month vacation, but this then leaves the "grey" above exposed which could become an issue the longer it continues.
Anyone here got any advice on plausible visa routes that he might follow ?
ta
arf
My son is in the USA on ESTA, which expires in a month. He is self employed YouTube etc and essentially can work/vlog etc from anywhere he wants. He is still performing his daily social media work while on vacation (as you would expect due to nature of the self employment). This in itself is not an issue.
This issue is that he's made really good connections with others of the same ilk while he's been in the USA and does not want to have to leave. The contacts are all now working together creating a new brand, which in turn is generating new levels of income all round. Although this in itself is probably a bit "grey" in nature as rules were created before these type of "jobs" ever existed, it's not really the issue as such.
The nub of the issue is that at present he would need to leave and probably have to wait 90 days before reentering, probably to a lot of questions, with a good % chance of being refused entry.
There is no real visa type that supports the ecom/social/youtube work that he performs to then come back toe the UK and apply for. Investment tier visas have been considered, but it's felt that a 20 yr old may fall foul of this due to the unlikely situation of having 500k spare. A T2 tourist visa may be doable as he does have enough funds to support a 6 month vacation, but this then leaves the "grey" above exposed which could become an issue the longer it continues.
Anyone here got any advice on plausible visa routes that he might follow ?
ta
arf
As I understand it, the ESTA is valid for 2 years on issue. It doesn't really have anything to do with how long you can stay; you need it as part of the Visa waiver program, the nub of which is that is you've been admitted under the VWP then it's not possible to extend past 90 days. At all.
What visa is he on? Obviously, it's not a Visitor one, what with him working and all that
What visa is he on? Obviously, it's not a Visitor one, what with him working and all that
No grey area here at all, and it most definitely is 'an issue'. If he is caught doing anything that might be considered to be income generating then he is outwith the terms of the ESTA, he will be deported, and he will have a hell of a job getting back into the USA ever again. He's running a huge risk doing what he's doing.
And, as you already know, the ESTA isn't extendable. He has to leave the US within 90 days of entry, or - well, see above.
And, as you already know, the ESTA isn't extendable. He has to leave the US within 90 days of entry, or - well, see above.
Steviesam said:
If they get even a sniff of ANYTHINg relating to him working there (even if the work could be done from anywhere in the world) he will be booted out and probably never be allowed back.
Dont fool yourself-he is working there, and they wont like it.
Unfortunately this is very much the case. Dont fool yourself-he is working there, and they wont like it.
Don't mess around with US Immigration. It never (well, very rarely) ends nicely.
I won't get into the working as US is way outside my area. You can conduct business on an ESLA but that curiously excludes "Information media".
I do know a few people leave the US for a short while and return to get another 90 days, (ESTA is 90 consecutive days) Canada and Mexico are the main places for this. You will still need a valid ESTA to come back in but that is an easy matter. The problem is the US border people are not silly and they are wise to this so the reasons need to be genuine and compelling why this has happened.
Any issues identified could cause significant future problems.
I do know a few people leave the US for a short while and return to get another 90 days, (ESTA is 90 consecutive days) Canada and Mexico are the main places for this. You will still need a valid ESTA to come back in but that is an easy matter. The problem is the US border people are not silly and they are wise to this so the reasons need to be genuine and compelling why this has happened.
Any issues identified could cause significant future problems.
Edited by Graveworm on Monday 21st January 13:11
If all earnings are received in Sterling and tax affairs registered in UK, US immigration might have a hard job proving that any actual work has been carried out on US soil. In theory then, that would just leave the ESTA question.
As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
markjmd said:
If all earnings are received in Sterling and tax affairs registered in UK, US immigration might have a hard job proving that any actual work has been carried out on US soil. In theory then, that would just leave the ESTA question.
As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
Paid, Taxed, Vat in the UK. Hence not being the issue as such at the moment. I know you can work in the US on Esta as long as it's for your own business or indeed a business you are an employee of, but it should not be seen to be a US business. In this case, it's not. The others he is now "working" with all run their own businesses, US and other EU (so there are others in the same boat here)As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
AndrewEH1 said:
How long has he been in the US un-interrupted so far?
He was there for 3 weeks, then back in the UK for 1 week and has now been in the US for another 4 weeks. He was told by immigration that they consider this to be one period and advised him the 90 days started when he 1st came over.markjmd said:
If all earnings are received in Sterling and tax affairs registered in UK, US immigration might have a hard job proving that any actual work has been carried out on US soil. In theory then, that would just leave the ESTA question.
As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
Agree ... hence looking for options .. As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
He's already been to see an immigration lawyer in LA to discuss, but seems like all options entail coming back to the UK, applying for suitable visa, interview etc and risk of being rejected (and then not allowed in again on ESTA)
arfur said:
Paid, Taxed, Vat in the UK. Hence not being the issue as such at the moment. I know you can work in the US on Esta as long as it's for your own business or indeed a business you are an employee OF.
Originally you said YouTube etc. If that involves filming or information media then it's one of the businesses you can't conduct on an ESTA. arfur said:
Agree ... hence looking for options ..
He's already been to see an immigration lawyer in LA to discuss, but seems like all options entail coming back to the UK, applying for suitable visa, interview etc and risk of being rejected (and then not allowed in again on ESTA)
Regardless of what he's doing work-wise at the moment (and, by-the-by, I am 100% certain that an immigration lawyer in LA will know far more about the options than a bunch of randoms on the internet!) I think his bigger issue will be that by his behaviour, it could be argued that he is setting up to immigrate to the US permanently which is a whole different kettle of fish than just doing a bit of work on the side. A key element to any of these temporary working visas is that you are not regarded as wanting to settle permanently.He's already been to see an immigration lawyer in LA to discuss, but seems like all options entail coming back to the UK, applying for suitable visa, interview etc and risk of being rejected (and then not allowed in again on ESTA)
As a non-US citizen, he won't be able to get a visa to set up a business in the US, so to be eligible for a B-1 he would need to show that he will still be working for a UK-based business. Alternatively, can one of his contacts create an employed position for him and get him in on an H1-B? Another fly in the ointment is that skilled working visas such as these typically need the roles to be graduate-level or higher, which can most easily be proved by having a relevant bachelors degree - and at 20 I guess he doesn't have one?
Graveworm said:
arfur said:
Paid, Taxed, Vat in the UK. Hence not being the issue as such at the moment. I know you can work in the US on Esta as long as it's for your own business or indeed a business you are an employee OF.
Originally you said YouTube etc. If that involves filming or information media then it's one of the businesses you can't conduct on an ESTA. deckster said:
Regardless of what he's doing work-wise at the moment (and, by-the-by, I am 100% certain that an immigration lawyer in LA will know far more about the options than a bunch of randoms on the internet!) I think his bigger issue will be that by his behaviour, it could be argued that he is setting up to immigrate to the US permanently which is a whole different kettle of fish than just doing a bit of work on the side. A key element to any of these temporary working visas is that you are not regarded as wanting to settle permanently.
As a non-US citizen, he won't be able to get a visa to set up a business in the US, so to be eligible for a B-1 he would need to show that he will still be working for a UK-based business. Alternatively, can one of his contacts create an employed position for him and get him in on an H1-B? Another fly in the ointment is that skilled working visas such as these typically need the roles to be graduate-level or higher, which can most easily be proved by having a relevant bachelors degree - and at 20 I guess he doesn't have one?
No, he's been YouTube, Ads, Instagram, Social Media Marketing etc etc since 16. He did look at this and that's the problem he was hitting. He could pay someone with a business to hire him as "marketing" but the degree bit gets him.As a non-US citizen, he won't be able to get a visa to set up a business in the US, so to be eligible for a B-1 he would need to show that he will still be working for a UK-based business. Alternatively, can one of his contacts create an employed position for him and get him in on an H1-B? Another fly in the ointment is that skilled working visas such as these typically need the roles to be graduate-level or higher, which can most easily be proved by having a relevant bachelors degree - and at 20 I guess he doesn't have one?
The only alternative at present is investment visa/green card, which needs 500k$ investment and creation of jobs for 10 US citizens .. This is the current thinking. But again, needs to be initiated from the UK
As I said, I think I already know the answer, was just looking to see if any inventive solutions existed :-(
markjmd said:
If all earnings are received in Sterling and tax affairs registered in UK, US immigration might have a hard job proving that any actual work has been carried out on US soil. In theory then, that would just leave the ESTA question.
As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
I’m fairly sure the immigration guys need to ‘prove’ anything. They just need to suspect.As others have pointed out though, falling foul of those guys is not something you want to do (particularly with the current political climate). If this was me, I'd be treading very carefully.
Flibble said:
Also true. Even with a visa if the immigration officer doesn't want to let you in, then you're not getting in. Evidence or not.
Again I don't know about the US but in the UK if you have a valid Visa you will get in. If "Refused" then you have a right of appeal in country. Visa waiver is a different matter. Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff