Can you withhold property

[PAULJ5555]

For example

If someone owed you £100 and did not want to pay you, can you just take something of theirs (maybe a TV or bike) without permission. The property will be returned on full payment.


Can the police do anything. I'm thinking no, its a civil matter.

[Graveworm]

PAULJ5555 said:

For example

If someone owed you £100 and did not want to pay you, can you just take something of theirs (maybe a TV or bike) without permission. The property will be returned on full payment.


Can the police do anything. I'm thinking no, its a civil matter.

There are lots of laws and precedents that govern liens and taking property So if the person initially believed they had a right in law to take it they may have a defence to theft, once they have been told about the lack of legality if they continued then its getting close to blackmail..
For £100 and a bike they would probably find alternative remedies... If it was a few K then they would have a closer look - reverting to running away again if it was 7 figures plus.

[ralphrj]

I'm not a Police Officer but to me:

PAULJ5555 said:

If someone owed you £100 and did not want to pay you,

This is a civil matter whereas this:

PAULJ5555 said:

can you just take something of theirs (maybe a TV or bike) without permission.

is theft.

[Zoon]

Correct, as the old saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Cyberprog]

ralphrj said:

is theft.

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

[Graveworm]

Cyberprog said:

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

And if they don't pay.... If you put conditions on the return then it's entirely possible to intend to permanently deprive. Since you are making a decision that amounts to treating it as an owner.

Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 12th February 12:44

[S11Steve]

Only if that property you seize is directly related to the work/service you provided - for example a laptop or car repair, known as "Mechanic's lien"

You can't hold an unrelated item to ransom for payment.

Such as repo'ing an unpaid rental vehicle and then holding their property that was in that vehicle securely until payment is received. I speak from hard learned experience on this.....

[Vanordinaire]

I'm not a lawyer but as far as I know, in Scotland, there's such a thing as 'Poinding' which is basically this, but it's a (fairly obscure)legal process and the hoops have to be jumped through.
Rest of UK, in some circumstances 'Lien' would cover this but I think it needs both parties agreement and the property has to be already in the creditor's posession (eg car in for repair and the garage can hold the car till bill is paid.)
Neither would allow you to randomly walk into someone's house , pick up their telly and keep it till they've paid a debt.

Edited by Vanordinaire on Tuesday 12th February 10:18

[PAULJ5555]

Cyberprog said:

ralphrj said:

is theft.

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

Also thinking if I took your TV without permission (no debt involved) and left a signed addressed letter saying I'm just borrowing your TV and you can have it back in 3 years time - on this date.

There is no intention to permanently deprive, so not theft ?

[anonymous-user]

There is no general right to seize property to secure payment of a debt. Common law used to allow landlords a remedy called distress for rent under which a tenant’s goods could be taken when rent was in arrears, but that remedy was abolished by statute. Commercial landlords can use bailiffs to take commercial tenants ‘ goods in specific circumstances under a statutory scheme.

[300bhp/ton]

Cyberprog said:

ralphrj said:

is theft.

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

I'm sure that would still be theft. If a joy rider steals a car with the intention of dumping it (i.e. being found and eventually returned to the owner). I'm not sure they could ever claim it wasn't theft.

[Earthdweller]

PAULJ5555 said:

For example

If someone owed you £100 and did not want to pay you, can you just take something of theirs (maybe a TV or bike) without permission. The property will be returned on full payment.


Can the police do anything. I'm thinking no, its a civil matter.

If someone has failed to discharge a lawful debt then there is civil recourse to recover that debt

Taking someone’s property, that you have no right to, as a ransom is a different kettle of fish and whilst you may not have an intention to permanently deprive could you discount that allegation against you ?

And secondly you may be committing other offences which are more serious than simple theft depending on how/when/where and other variables

But without specifics it’s hard to give you a specific answer

[Earthdweller]

300bhp/ton said:

Cyberprog said:

ralphrj said:

is theft.

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

I'm sure that would still be theft. If a joy rider steals a car with the intention of dumping it (i.e. being found and eventually returned to the owner). I'm not sure they could ever claim it wasn't theft.

Specific offence of taking without consent .. there are many different offences under the theft act, simple theft being S1 but there are many others

TWOC or taking and driving away has its own section

[tinnitusjosh]

The first reply to this thread is from a lawyer (as i understand it?) and pretty much covers everything. Why does everyone else need to pile in with their 2p worth??

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

tinnitusjosh said:

The first reply to this thread is from a lawyer (as i understand it?) and pretty much covers everything. Why does everyone else need to pile in with their 2p worth??

because it's an internet forum & that's the whole point

[Helicopter123]

Breadvan72 said:

There is no general right to seize property to secure payment of a debt. Common law used to allow landlords a remedy called distress for rent under which a tenant’s goods could be taken when rent was in arrears, but that remedy was abolished by statute. Commercial landlords can use bailiffs to take commercial tenants ‘ goods in specific circumstances under a statutory scheme.

This.

[softtop]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

tinnitusjosh said:

The first reply to this thread is from a lawyer (as i understand it?) and pretty much covers everything. Why does everyone else need to pile in with their 2p worth??

because it's an internet forum & that's the whole point

[tinnitusjosh]

softtop said:

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

tinnitusjosh said:

The first reply to this thread is from a lawyer (as i understand it?) and pretty much covers everything. Why does everyone else need to pile in with their 2p worth??

because it's an internet forum & that's the whole point

I'm not sure whether the "point" is to go canvass for a variety of views

[MrHargreaves]

300bhp/ton said:

Cyberprog said:

ralphrj said:

is theft.

It's not theft. Theft is the taking with the intention to permanently deprive someone of their property. This is taking of property with the intention to get the person to repay a debt, upon which the property will be returned.

I'm sure that would still be theft. If a joy rider steals a car with the intention of dumping it (i.e. being found and eventually returned to the owner). I'm not sure they could ever claim it wasn't theft.

That's TWOC not theft