Have speed cameras bettered driving safety?

[jondude]

I ask as someone who has returned to the UK after 20 odd years overseas.

I was remembering how as a teen we used to bomb up the A12 and A127 in Essex on our motorbikes ...whereas now most of this road is limited to average 50 mph.

I do not see improvements in standards but maybe I am wrong - has there been official studies as to the real effects of all these speed cameras on actual road safety?

[vonhosen]

The question should be have speed limits aided safety.
Enforcement is merely a consequence of the limits existence.

[4rephill]

jondude said:

I ask as someone who has returned to the UK after 20 odd years overseas.

I was remembering how as a teen we used to bomb up the A12 and A127 in Essex on our motorbikes ...whereas now most of this road is limited to average 50 mph.

I do not see improvements in standards but maybe I am wrong - has there been official studies as to the real effects of all these speed cameras on actual road safety?

Hey Quint - Is that you?

Tell us about the Indianapolis!

"Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies,
Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain......"

[MrGman]

I'm not sure if it's speed cameras, but people do drive a lot slower now i'd say (non motorway) people just sit in their lane with blinkers on trundling along between 30-40mph no matter what the limit is or what the conditions are like.

[irocfan]

Anecdotal I know but IMO driving standards have tanked.

Welcome back.

[Ian Geary]

So have they? (In your opinion? On the basis enforcement is likely to increase compliance with speed limits?)

I think driving is safer than 20 years ago.

But I wouldn't attribute that to either greater adherence to speed limits (which are generally lower as well) or enforcement of those limits by camera.

Cameras have worked at known black spots, but there's not enough to cover every black spot, and vans in particular still favour cash cow locations than black spots.

Better maintenance and standards of vehicles, less drink driving and even more traffic I think has resulted in less deaths / injuries.

Background standards of driving are worse I think, but these just create frustration rather than being "unsafe"

[Pothole]

Bettered what, or do you mean improved? You've been away, so perhaps some remo English classes might help with communication.

But, seriously, of course they haven't improved anything. Of course no real in depth research has been done.

[jondude]

Thanks all - I think one area of massive difference to when here last time is the amount of drivers playing cops, the 'the speed limit is 50 so I am not going to let you pass if you choose to as its illegal, innit??' brigade. (Matters not they are doing a real 40 mph in a 50 zone)

This seems to have spread to simple, legal overtakes too - where I see many drivers taking offence at being overtaken (carefully and well) and they speed up.

Lots more pig headedness, I guess.

Having said that, still some very good and helpful drivers out there and it still feels a lot safer and easier to drive here than most countries I worked in overseas.A lot of that though is, as has been touched upon, our roads are so narrow and clogged we simply MUST help each other or it will all collapse.

We do though, in the main.

Just move aside or keep your speed stable if I am overtaking you though, thanks

Edited by jondude on Saturday 9th March 16:49

[Pothole]

Try riding a motorcycle, they either move right to block overtakes, move too far left and shower you with st from the side of the road or get angry and flash their lights after you've overtaken, perfectly safely.

[jondude]

Pothole said:

Try riding a motorcycle, they either move right to block overtakes, move too far left and shower you with st from the side of the road or get angry and flash their lights after you've overtaken, perfectly safely.

Such a shame, as is the almost total lack of motorbikes on the roads, too. When I left a BMW 650 was considered expensive at 4-5k, now it seems most bikes are priced in the tens of thousands???

I always move aside if a bike is coming through the gaps. I've tried being on a bike in the rain and cold so no need at all to get all righteous and envious of the biker making progress!

[Tony1963]

I worked in Saudi for most of the 90s. Obviously the driving standards of the locals and many migrant workers was atrocious, but considering the complete lack of a meaningful driving test, it was understandable. I returned to the UK at the end of ‘99, and I found it all so uneventful! I could go months without anything out of the ordinary happening.

Two observations from me on the last twenty years though.
Firstly, parking abilities. It’s almost a hobby of mine to watch people completely mess up what is a basic driving skill. Supermarket car parks are amazing places. Four attempts to park a hatchback in a half empty car park? Yep. Park nose in, then get frustrated when nobody in the queue to exit will let you reverse out (incompetently)? Yep.
And secondly, s cutting across blind right hand bends. FFS, do they think it’s the racing line or something?

I might buy an old Transit, bolt a railway sleeper to the front, and drive fast at the centre line through bends. Won’t take long to wipe out a Freelander, I reckon.

[Crackie]

jondude said:

I ask as someone who has returned to the UK after 20 odd years overseas.

I was remembering how as a teen we used to bomb up the A12 and A127 in Essex on our motorbikes ...whereas now most of this road is limited to average 50 mph.

I do not see improvements in standards but maybe I am wrong - has there been official studies as to the real effects of all these speed cameras on actual road safety?

I believe the trend shown in North Yorks is reflected in other counties.



Increased vehicle numbers on the road should be factored in, as should improved car safety.

Camera vans were introduced to N Yorks in 2011 ( there are no fixed cameras ) and our police and crime commissioner has decided double their number every two years since then. I'm not quite sure how that decision has been justified, during times of supposed austerity, because, according to the authority's own data, things have not improved. In fact, the number being killed or seriously injured increased in the first few years following camera vans being introduced...….

Edited by Crackie on Saturday 9th March 18:33

[Pothole]

Crackie said:

Camera vans were introduced to N Yorks in 2011 ( there are no fixed cameras ) and our police and crime commissioner has decided double their number every two years since then. I'm not quite sure how that decision has been justified, during times of supposed austerity, because, according to the authority's own data, things have not improved. In fact, the number being killed or seriously injured increased in the first few years following camera vans being introduced...….

Edited by Crackie on Saturday 9th March 18:33

Because they pay for themselves?

[vonhosen]

Crackie said:

Camera vans were introduced to N Yorks in 2011 ( there are no fixed cameras ) and our police and crime commissioner has decided double their number every two years since then. I'm not quite sure how that decision has been justified, during times of supposed austerity, because, according to the authority's own data, things have not improved. In fact, the number being killed or seriously injured increased in the first few years following camera vans being introduced...….

Detection & Prosecution levels improved?
(Which with effect on speeds at their locations is the only true appropriate measure for camera enforcement against other forms of enforcement).

[Tony1963]

Pothole said:

Because they pay for themselves?

No they don’t. At all.

[ging84]

i've found average speed cameras on motorway road works seem to allow a lot of people to really work on thier tailgating skills

[Pothole]

Tony1963 said:

No they don’t. At all.

OK. Thanks

ETA:

This document would disagree

"During 2014/15, money generated
by the safety camera vans met the
operational cost of operating the
safety camera van team.
In April 2014, these costs included:
1 manager
2 team leaders
9 enforcement officers
6 administration officers
1 data analyst
1 police constable

Finances
From November 2014, the team
was renamed the Traffic Bureau
and was expanded to take on the
work of the former central ticket
office. Its expansion was also in
preparation for the deployment of
a further three safety camera vans
in April 2015.
By the end of March 2015, the Bureau had the following posts:
1 manager
4 team leaders
18 enforcement officers
12 administration officers
1 data analyst
2 traffic management officers
2 investigators
1 police constable


The cost of all these staff was met
with funds from educational
courses"

Edited by Pothole on Saturday 9th March 21:08

[Jasandjules]

No. I think they have made it far worse and the only reason KSIs are lower are due to the improvements in vehicle safety.

[Turn7]

4rephill said:

Hey Quint - Is that you?

Tell us about the Indianapolis!

"Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies,
Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain......"

I like that...

[Tony1963]

Pothole said:

OK. Thanks

ETA:

This document would disagree

"During 2014/15, money generated
by the safety camera vans met the
operational cost of operating the
safety camera van team.
In April 2014, these costs included:
1 manager
2 team leaders
9 enforcement officers
6 administration officers
1 data analyst
1 police constable

Finances
From November 2014, the team
was renamed the Traffic Bureau
and was expanded to take on the
work of the former central ticket
office. Its expansion was also in
preparation for the deployment of
a further three safety camera vans
in April 2015.
By the end of March 2015, the Bureau had the following posts:
1 manager
4 team leaders
18 enforcement officers
12 administration officers
1 data analyst
2 traffic management officers
2 investigators
1 police constable


The cost of all these staff was met
with funds from educational
courses"

Edited by Pothole on Saturday 9th March 21:08

Money from speed camera fines goes to the consolidated fund – the Government’s bank account at the Bank of England – for general expenditure rather than directly to the police. It is then distributed by the Department for Transport through grants.