Issue with driveway i installed, where do i stand?
Discussion
I completed a driveway for a customer in dec 18. All happy, looked great, shared on social media with lots of good comments as always. I won't be mentioning any names or any pics just yet.
Last week i get a call saying now is the first time its been properly dry and now its dry its apparent that some of the blocks are a totally different colour. I would estimate about a pack (11m2) total area was approx 120m2. I cant argue, it looks ridiculous, theres patches which are totally different in shade, i feel for the customer.
The blocks we have laid are a mixed colour and like i say no obvious issue initially, especially as it was a bit dusty when finished (i actually gave it a gentle pressure wash to clean it).
I purchased the blocks from a national builders merchant and they were supplied by a large company of which i am an approved contractor.
It actually looks to me like one of two things:
Wrong colour blocks were supplied by mistake, they actually look a bit like another colour they manufacture which looks similar, especially when wet. My finished photos i took are wet but i can see some difference in 'normal' colour mixture, not much but a bit.
Or a dodgy pack of blocks which has weathered excessively quickly.
The manufacturer is already stating its unlikely to be their fault, the builders merchant although helpful is implying its not theirs either. The customer wants a whole new driveway!!! At this stage I'm not quite sure replacing the whole thing is reasonable, however i will say that would be the ideal scenario as new blocks would all be the same batch and weather evenly.
I understand/believe that legally i am the contractor and as such its down to me but surely i must have some comeback to suppliers. In a worst case scenario i would just change the dodgy blocks at my cost which i am sure is a more than acceptable solution legally. Although i dont fancy buying a pack of blocks and having maybe 2 days labour to change them, i would do it to retain my name. I dont think the customer would be happy and i could imagine id still be portrayed as the villain though
However all i can really do is buy a product and install it, i obviously dont make the stuff or even earn any money out of those materials so its quite unfair for me to be on the hook.
Its early days and it may well all be settled by them but i am wondering if there's anything i should know which may help me before i have words put in mouth that i accept its my issue somehow.
Last week i get a call saying now is the first time its been properly dry and now its dry its apparent that some of the blocks are a totally different colour. I would estimate about a pack (11m2) total area was approx 120m2. I cant argue, it looks ridiculous, theres patches which are totally different in shade, i feel for the customer.
The blocks we have laid are a mixed colour and like i say no obvious issue initially, especially as it was a bit dusty when finished (i actually gave it a gentle pressure wash to clean it).
I purchased the blocks from a national builders merchant and they were supplied by a large company of which i am an approved contractor.
It actually looks to me like one of two things:
Wrong colour blocks were supplied by mistake, they actually look a bit like another colour they manufacture which looks similar, especially when wet. My finished photos i took are wet but i can see some difference in 'normal' colour mixture, not much but a bit.
Or a dodgy pack of blocks which has weathered excessively quickly.
The manufacturer is already stating its unlikely to be their fault, the builders merchant although helpful is implying its not theirs either. The customer wants a whole new driveway!!! At this stage I'm not quite sure replacing the whole thing is reasonable, however i will say that would be the ideal scenario as new blocks would all be the same batch and weather evenly.
I understand/believe that legally i am the contractor and as such its down to me but surely i must have some comeback to suppliers. In a worst case scenario i would just change the dodgy blocks at my cost which i am sure is a more than acceptable solution legally. Although i dont fancy buying a pack of blocks and having maybe 2 days labour to change them, i would do it to retain my name. I dont think the customer would be happy and i could imagine id still be portrayed as the villain though
However all i can really do is buy a product and install it, i obviously dont make the stuff or even earn any money out of those materials so its quite unfair for me to be on the hook.
Its early days and it may well all be settled by them but i am wondering if there's anything i should know which may help me before i have words put in mouth that i accept its my issue somehow.
If you can't replace only the "wrong" blocks with a perfect match, will you be able to re-use the majority of the blocks should you have to replace the lot?
I don't think it changes the position that the "right" thing to do is make it good at your cost but it might mean you manage to recoup some costs.
I don't think it changes the position that the "right" thing to do is make it good at your cost but it might mean you manage to recoup some costs.
UpTheIron said:
If you can't replace only the "wrong" blocks with a perfect match, will you be able to re-use the majority of the blocks should you have to replace the lot?
I don't think it changes the position that the "right" thing to do is make it good at your cost but it might mean you manage to recoup some costs.
I could do, i could use them on my own drive, the issue being the labour to replace it all would be significant, that and the fact moving and storing something like 4000 blocks is easier said than done I don't think it changes the position that the "right" thing to do is make it good at your cost but it might mean you manage to recoup some costs.
I think the mark of a good business is how they resolve an issue to the client’s satisfaction. I’ve followed you on here over the years (not in a stalky way, I should hasten to add! 
) and you certainly don’t appear to be a dodgy character. It takes years to build a reputation and days to destroy it - I’d agree that a whole new driveway is probably slightly unreasonable but I’m sure he’s paid a good amount of wedge for your expertise and expects a certain level of service.
If you agree it looks ridiculous, then I’d say it might be your priority to make your customer happy and then worry about sorting the rest out later. Social media is extraordinarily powerful and your reputation could be in tatters within days (rightly or wrongly). If you can come to a reasonable compromise, then great - but if you have to take it on the chin, then that might be the path of least resistance (no pun intended), however much it might hurt financially.
Do you have Insurance you could claim from?
I feel for you - it’s tough enough being a small business without stuff like this happening.
) and you certainly don’t appear to be a dodgy character. It takes years to build a reputation and days to destroy it - I’d agree that a whole new driveway is probably slightly unreasonable but I’m sure he’s paid a good amount of wedge for your expertise and expects a certain level of service.If you agree it looks ridiculous, then I’d say it might be your priority to make your customer happy and then worry about sorting the rest out later. Social media is extraordinarily powerful and your reputation could be in tatters within days (rightly or wrongly). If you can come to a reasonable compromise, then great - but if you have to take it on the chin, then that might be the path of least resistance (no pun intended), however much it might hurt financially.
Do you have Insurance you could claim from?
I feel for you - it’s tough enough being a small business without stuff like this happening.
I filled out a claim form with the builders merchant today, he did say not to worry just yet and told me of a couple of cases where the manufacturer has paid to replace stuff before (stuff which imo was down to the installer! ). So i am hoping it gets resolved.
I have the standard public liability, employers etc but doubt something like this would be covered tbh.
Like i say i will replace the dodgy pack at my cost in a worst case scenario and i am fairly sure with a few months you would never know, luckily the job is only 3mths old, if it was 9mths weathering would be well underway.
Customer is so far happy (i hope) with my efforts, he contacted me friday about 1pm and i have been round, taken photos, contacted supplier and manufacturer and filled the claim form in so i am doing my bit).
It really isn't easy, your earning a wage out of all this, it should be more money but your constantly being squeezed by others, some of which dont give a s
t and would have told him to fk off and blocked his number, i kid you not!
I have the standard public liability, employers etc but doubt something like this would be covered tbh.
Like i say i will replace the dodgy pack at my cost in a worst case scenario and i am fairly sure with a few months you would never know, luckily the job is only 3mths old, if it was 9mths weathering would be well underway.
Customer is so far happy (i hope) with my efforts, he contacted me friday about 1pm and i have been round, taken photos, contacted supplier and manufacturer and filled the claim form in so i am doing my bit).
It really isn't easy, your earning a wage out of all this, it should be more money but your constantly being squeezed by others, some of which dont give a s
t and would have told him to fk off and blocked his number, i kid you not! What is the customer pushing for? Surely he just wants a uniform driveway which means just replacing the wrong colour bricks with normal ones?
The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
p4cks said:
What is the customer pushing for? Surely he just wants a uniform driveway which means just replacing the wrong colour bricks with normal ones?
The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
He seems to want the lot replacing, i can see why but i dont think its necessary tbh. And yes if i have to id suck up the cost of replacing those if it came to it.The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
m3jappa said:
p4cks said:
What is the customer pushing for? Surely he just wants a uniform driveway which means just replacing the wrong colour bricks with normal ones?
The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
He seems to want the lot replacing, i can see why but i dont think its necessary tbh. And yes if i have to id suck up the cost of replacing those if it came to it.The labour you'll need to suck up, as others have said. This is about how well you can 'fix' an issue with something you've supplied (albeit not entirely of your own doing)
I would be irritated at having to face 2x days of further disruption, but would be understanding if I could see you were making effort to sort it out.
Maybe he’ll get over the initial ‘rip it all up and start again’ stance over time, especially as you appear to being proactive about the issue.
It might be worth planting the seed that the whole lot coming up would be a massive inconvenience for him and that a simple, less stressful fix of replacing the erroneous bricks might be a better solution ?
It might be worth planting the seed that the whole lot coming up would be a massive inconvenience for him and that a simple, less stressful fix of replacing the erroneous bricks might be a better solution ?
StuTheGrouch said:
If I was the customer I would simply want the driveway that I paid for, but whether that requires an entirely new driveway would depend on how much I trusted that a partial replacement would leave me with the driveway I paid for. Is it a whole area of blocks which don't match, or are the 'odd' blocks scattered about across the whole driveway?
I would be irritated at having to face 2x days of further disruption, but would be understanding if I could see you were making effort to sort it out.
They are scattered about but one area is particularly patchy. I would be irritated at having to face 2x days of further disruption, but would be understanding if I could see you were making effort to sort it out.
If it were me in your shoes, I'd be looking to compromise acceptably with the customer with an eye on reputation being more valuable than margin..... Your reputation in business is actually made by how you deal with mistakes and sort out issues for customers, do it well and it's far more valuable than just being generally good at what you do.....
If it were me, I'd use my experience with the product to make an educated estimate on whether I would get an acceptable result for both me and the client by replacing just the dud pack of blocks. If I reckoned there was a better than average chance that this would sort it I would recommend this solution to the client, re-affirm that it would be at your cost and move heaven and earth to do it as soon as I practically could.... If the client didn't feel inclined to accept that but continued to push for a whole new drive, yet I was confident my single pack solution would sort the problem, I'd agree with the client that you effected the 'repair' and if it still wasn't right you'd re-do the whole thing. I'd only gamble on replacing a single pack if I was pretty sure it'd fix the problem, otherwise I'd roll over and swallow the bitter pill now - the first loss you take is ALWAYS the cheapest!
I'd then go over my figures again and make sure I was building enough margin into future jobs in case it happened again!
Ultimately I'd move heaven and earth to keep the customer sweet on the basis of business reputation and that you can then reasonably ask them to spread the word on how good you've been!
I feel for you though, never feels nice staring into the prospect of a loss, but that's part of business - some you win, some you lose....
If it were me, I'd use my experience with the product to make an educated estimate on whether I would get an acceptable result for both me and the client by replacing just the dud pack of blocks. If I reckoned there was a better than average chance that this would sort it I would recommend this solution to the client, re-affirm that it would be at your cost and move heaven and earth to do it as soon as I practically could.... If the client didn't feel inclined to accept that but continued to push for a whole new drive, yet I was confident my single pack solution would sort the problem, I'd agree with the client that you effected the 'repair' and if it still wasn't right you'd re-do the whole thing. I'd only gamble on replacing a single pack if I was pretty sure it'd fix the problem, otherwise I'd roll over and swallow the bitter pill now - the first loss you take is ALWAYS the cheapest!
I'd then go over my figures again and make sure I was building enough margin into future jobs in case it happened again!
Ultimately I'd move heaven and earth to keep the customer sweet on the basis of business reputation and that you can then reasonably ask them to spread the word on how good you've been!
I feel for you though, never feels nice staring into the prospect of a loss, but that's part of business - some you win, some you lose....
While i agree that i will do what i have to and potentially stomach any potential loss is there no legal recourse on suppliers?
Surely i cant be legitimately fobbed off with bullst and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault?
Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Surely i cant be legitimately fobbed off with bulls
t and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault? Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Reciprocating mass said:
Can you not pull the offending items up and hide them through the rest of the drive so it less obvious I.e spread them out singley ? amongst the right colour just a thought
Unfortunately not as that is the current look we have It is really odd tbh, certainly a strange one , part of me is convinced we have been given a pack of the wrong colour but then part of me thinks its a bad pack and the reason for that is whatever colour they are they have faded so much they have almost gone white (not efflorescence though). If it was the wrong colour from day one then i am sure that one of us including the customer or myself who has laid hundreds and hundreds of driveways would have noticed.
m3jappa said:
Surely i cant be legitimately fobbed off with bullst and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault?
Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Usually the suppliers liability will just be on the quality of the blocks, if they are not up to standard (or wrong ones delivered) then they need to replace them, however they will not be liable for consequential losses.t and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault? Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Unless the customer specifically chose the supplier and those blocks then it’s down to you I’m afraid.
However a completely new job doesn’t sound reasonable to me, Also be prepared that if they age differently and in 6/9 months time they don’t look right they you will be getting another call.
m3jappa said:
Surely i cant be legitimately fobbed off with bullst and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault?
Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Usually the suppliers liability will just be on the quality of the blocks, if they are not up to standard (or wrong ones delivered) then they need to replace them, however they will not be liable for consequential losses.t and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault? Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Unless the customer specifically chose the supplier and those blocks then it’s down to you I’m afraid.
However a completely new job doesn’t sound reasonable to me, Also be prepared that if they age differently and in 6/9 months time they don’t look right they you will be getting another call.
Edited by Green1man on Monday 25th March 20:55
oh bugger what about a sneaky skim of the whitend bricks with a bit of emery would that work he says clutching at straws,I’m afraid my only experience is de weeding the buggers and scrubbing them once a year and the odd brick pull or 5 to raise it up level after 30 odd years of use, Good luck with it can’t really think of any other ideas I’m sure you’d have plenty more than me anyhow’s
Edited by Reciprocating mass on Monday 25th March 20:53
Edited by Reciprocating mass on Monday 25th March 20:54
I would be telling the suppler they have faded, then it’s a definately quality issue and they can’t claim you should have confirmed colours before laying. It must have been dry sometime between December and today, (i.e. in the hot spell a few weeks ago) so fading is certainly possible, maybe they weren’t fired/cured correctly?
m3jappa said:
Surely i cant be legitimately fobbed off with bullst and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault?
Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Usual the suppliers liability will just be on the quality of the blocks, if they are not up to standard (or wrong ones delivered) then they need to replace them, however they will not be liable for consequential losses.t and be forced to fix something which isn't my fault? Social media could be bad for me but surely they dont want me on all the paving forums slagging them off either?
Unless the customer specifically chose the supplier and those blocks then it’s down to you I’m afraid.
However a completely new job doesn’t sound reasonable to me. However be prepared that if they age differently and in 6/9 months time they don’t look right they you will be getting another call.
A bit of a left field thought : could the customer have tried to clean them with some harsh chemicals perhaps? Is the fading clearly localised to individual blocks or is there overlap onto adjacent blocks which may indicate something harsh has been poured over them and caused the discolouration?
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