Officers face gross misconduct probe
Discussion
All Officers face an allegation of gross misconduct arising from their involvement in the removal of a detainee from the toilet area of a cell at Colchester police station on the 1st May 2015. In the course of the removal, the detainee sustained serious injuries to his left hand. The Officers’ conduct is alleged to have breached the Standards of Professional Behaviour relating to:
Use of Force
Duties and Responsibilities
Equality and Diversity
In addition, Insp Christopher 2434 TYLER is alleged to have subsequently behaved in an inappropriate and disrespectful manner by laughing and joking about the incident and the detainee’s injuries. His conduct in this respect is alleged to have breached the Standards of Professional Behaviour relating to:
Authority Respect and Courtesy
Discreditable Conduct
Use of Force
Duties and Responsibilities
Equality and Diversity
In addition, Insp Christopher 2434 TYLER is alleged to have subsequently behaved in an inappropriate and disrespectful manner by laughing and joking about the incident and the detainee’s injuries. His conduct in this respect is alleged to have breached the Standards of Professional Behaviour relating to:
Authority Respect and Courtesy
Discreditable Conduct
No reason I just decided it wasn't a very good topic. I was generally supporting the officers against a complete nutter, (foot in the toilet if you need evidence), yet the officers may get found guilty of gross misconduct; could that ruin their careers. I thought the thread would be deleted when I deleted my post.
La Liga said:
I'm not privy to the circumstances as I didn't read the OP.
Did a prisoner get stuck in a toilet somehow and then forced out, causing injuries?
Looks like it. Theyve changed the toilets in Essex custody areas now so could have been something to do with the design. Matey was a foreign national with mental health issues so dont know if he was a prisoner or mental health detainee. Looks like hes grabbed the rim as theyve tried to extricate him, chopping three fingers off!Did a prisoner get stuck in a toilet somehow and then forced out, causing injuries?
Yes he lost the tips of his fingers as he was grabbing the inside lip of the toilet bowl (while they presumably pulled him out). Clearly they (5 officers including an inspector) shouldn’t have done that as these days it is obvious that a) if anyone doesn’t comply they should just be left to do what they want to do and b) the victim doesn’t have to bear any responsibility for their own actions
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
I'm not privy to the circumstances as I didn't read the OP.
Did a prisoner get stuck in a toilet somehow and then forced out, causing injuries?
Looks like it. Theyve changed the toilets in Essex custody areas now so could have been something to do with the design. Matey was a foreign national with mental health issues so dont know if he was a prisoner or mental health detainee. Looks like hes grabbed the rim as theyve tried to extricate him, chopping three fingers off!Did a prisoner get stuck in a toilet somehow and then forced out, causing injuries?
It took the IPOC / CPS over three years to investigate / decide there were no criminal matters!
We'll see what happens with the gross misconduct hearings.
wst said:
Ah yes, because what they were doing constitutes reasonable grounds to amputate their fingers.
I don't think it's a realistic to expect that when removing someone clinging on (I assume) to a toilet they'd have parts of their fingers sliced off. 
La Liga said:
I did once see someone get their fingers chopped off by a cell door ( his own fault, angry man scenario, no officers at fault ).
Not pleasant. I elected not to be the one to pick up said digits.
However, the custody sergeant was referred to as "Chopper" after that.
Back in the day ...
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 30th April 16:24
CoolHands said:
Clearly they (5 officers including an inspector) shouldn’t have done that as these days it is obvious that a) if anyone doesn’t comply they should just be left to do what they want to do
Without trying to quote you out of context on the main story, this is wrong. They have a duty of care which allows for use of force to prevent someone causing themselves or others harm, which in this case could be taken to imply if the guy was trying to hurt himself or maybe if he was trying to smash up then the same allowance could apply. From the limited info we have it would appear that they have gone overboard for either reason, but in general the law does allow them to act.CoolHands said:
No reason I just decided it wasn't a very good topic. I was generally supporting the officers against a complete nutter, (foot in the toilet if you need evidence), yet the officers may get found guilty of gross misconduct; could that ruin their careers. I thought the thread would be deleted when I deleted my post.
‘A complete nutter’ followed by‘I though the thread would be deleted’
Hmmm.
We'll need to see what comes out in the enquiry wich will investigate the techniques used. This could involve fist or baton strikes on his hands or the application of quik kuffs to loosen his grip. I cant see merely pulling his hands away from the toilet would be deemed as misconduct Whatever they were, the CPS werent interested. However - we'll find out next week.
Edited by Bigends on Tuesday 30th April 18:15
I feel sorry for them, it's easily done and big heavy custody doors etc or other fittings can be a problem.
Cell extraction techniques don't always work and lithe wiry detainees can be at the door very quickly after officers have rushed out.
The cell door will not stop for fingers or anything else that gets in the way.
In my 15 years as a CO I generally used incapacitant spray / cs or pepper on prisoners doing nonsense like this.
I had to issue myself a new can every month or so which was quite a local joke..
It didn't injure them permanently and was much less risky than wacking things with asps,
knackering wrists with rigid cuffs etc or rushing into the cell with 5 heavies to do it manually.
Prisoners refusing to remove hands/faces/heads from the cell hatch after being passed a drink or spoken with etc was a perennial favourite.
My strategy was...
1) Wander off, ignore them and observe remotely via cctv, this wasn't Shawshank and they didn't have a poster on the wall,
they weren't going to escape through a six inch hole in the door.
It's an uncomfortable stress position to maintain stood at the door with your head at 45 degrees rammed through the hole whilst foaming at the mouth.
They generally soon got bored/tired and went and sat down to eat drink/rest/rant whatever.
2) If they were banging so noisily on the door as to make the custody suite dangerous for other detainees (i.e we couldn't hear) or spitting through the hatch and refusing to remove hands and 1) did not work I would simply warn them and then spray them if they didn't comply.
Again they generally then went and sat down crying clutching their faces for an hour and didn't do it again.
Ditto dirty protests, trying to rip toilets out, rip down cell cameras etc etc stop damaging the cell or you will be sprayed etc etc.
Perfectly reasonable use of force to stop offences being committed, property being damaged etc when dealing with a potentially violent prisoner.
No point whatsoever opening the door and going hands on with someone covered in s
t unless as a last and urgent resort.
3) A useful trick to reduce my forces expenditure on pava was to use the inert training spray or a vicious looking spray bottle filled with water convincingly labelled as pava/cs etc.
Threaten them with this and spray in face, they remove hands/ yank head back through hatch as reflex reaction and clutch face expecting the worst.
Snap cell hatch shut and job done.
Chummy has been conned (but not injured) and won't be getting another hot chocolate, microwave meal, something to read or a visit anytime soon.
I remember using a 'Remote Stimulant' on particularly violent regular detainees, a phrase which went down in local legend and on the custody record.
In the cell pissed threatening all and sundry banging for an hour, goes quiet needs to be checked and roused every half an hour as drunk.
Shall we open the door and go in? Not likely, well not straight away there is only us two in the station. Lets try the "Remote Stimulant"
Fetch small cup of water, or old 20ml syringe filled with water. Administer to detainee through hatch. (i.e throw it on them or squirt them)
They jump up foaming at mouth again and recommence banging shouting abuse.
Custody log entry "Checked and roused, spoken with all in order. Remote stimulant used due to dp's violent behaviour and danger of assault.."
Rinse and repeat as necessary. Obviously if they don't respond you gather the troops and do it the old fashioned way.
Cell extraction techniques don't always work and lithe wiry detainees can be at the door very quickly after officers have rushed out.
The cell door will not stop for fingers or anything else that gets in the way.
In my 15 years as a CO I generally used incapacitant spray / cs or pepper on prisoners doing nonsense like this.
I had to issue myself a new can every month or so which was quite a local joke..
It didn't injure them permanently and was much less risky than wacking things with asps,
knackering wrists with rigid cuffs etc or rushing into the cell with 5 heavies to do it manually.
Prisoners refusing to remove hands/faces/heads from the cell hatch after being passed a drink or spoken with etc was a perennial favourite.
My strategy was...
1) Wander off, ignore them and observe remotely via cctv, this wasn't Shawshank and they didn't have a poster on the wall,
they weren't going to escape through a six inch hole in the door.
It's an uncomfortable stress position to maintain stood at the door with your head at 45 degrees rammed through the hole whilst foaming at the mouth.
They generally soon got bored/tired and went and sat down to eat drink/rest/rant whatever.
2) If they were banging so noisily on the door as to make the custody suite dangerous for other detainees (i.e we couldn't hear) or spitting through the hatch and refusing to remove hands and 1) did not work I would simply warn them and then spray them if they didn't comply.
Again they generally then went and sat down crying clutching their faces for an hour and didn't do it again.
Ditto dirty protests, trying to rip toilets out, rip down cell cameras etc etc stop damaging the cell or you will be sprayed etc etc.
Perfectly reasonable use of force to stop offences being committed, property being damaged etc when dealing with a potentially violent prisoner.
No point whatsoever opening the door and going hands on with someone covered in s
t unless as a last and urgent resort. 3) A useful trick to reduce my forces expenditure on pava was to use the inert training spray or a vicious looking spray bottle filled with water convincingly labelled as pava/cs etc.
Threaten them with this and spray in face, they remove hands/ yank head back through hatch as reflex reaction and clutch face expecting the worst.
Snap cell hatch shut and job done.
Chummy has been conned (but not injured) and won't be getting another hot chocolate, microwave meal, something to read or a visit anytime soon.
I remember using a 'Remote Stimulant' on particularly violent regular detainees, a phrase which went down in local legend and on the custody record.
In the cell pissed threatening all and sundry banging for an hour, goes quiet needs to be checked and roused every half an hour as drunk.
Shall we open the door and go in? Not likely, well not straight away there is only us two in the station. Lets try the "Remote Stimulant"
Fetch small cup of water, or old 20ml syringe filled with water. Administer to detainee through hatch. (i.e throw it on them or squirt them)
They jump up foaming at mouth again and recommence banging shouting abuse.
Custody log entry "Checked and roused, spoken with all in order. Remote stimulant used due to dp's violent behaviour and danger of assault.."
Rinse and repeat as necessary. Obviously if they don't respond you gather the troops and do it the old fashioned way.
Edited by peterperkins on Tuesday 30th April 18:56
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