Is there a 20mph thread anywhere?
Discussion
Cos I’d like to have a moan if so. What the f
kitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing 
obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.
I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
kitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
I do seem to remember seeing it in a number of places that there is a statistically greater number of accidents on 20mph than 30mph roads.
Watching this video;
https://youtu.be/qlwOhUKRibs
I could see why; All 20mph does is entice people to dither! As mentioned by many others on various speed related threads, limits so artificially low tend to downplay the danger of vehicles, leading to more dangerous pedestrian behaviour.
Watching this video;
https://youtu.be/qlwOhUKRibs
I could see why; All 20mph does is entice people to dither! As mentioned by many others on various speed related threads, limits so artificially low tend to downplay the danger of vehicles, leading to more dangerous pedestrian behaviour.
CoolHands said:
Cos I’d like to have a moan if so. What the fkitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.
I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
According to the usual Londonista on here this isn't happening and there are only a tiny number of 20mph roads in London. In reality the entire city is being covered with them with the latest proposals from the TfL imbeciles to further reduce some to 15mph in the next few years.kitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
Put simply they don't want you driving their precious city!
cb1965 said:
According to the usual Londonista on here this isn't happening and there are only a tiny number of 20mph roads in London. In reality the entire city is being covered with them with the latest proposals from the TfL imbeciles to further reduce some to 15mph in the next few years.
Not sure where you heard that but 15mph isn't a legal limit so would require a change in law. cb1965 said:
CoolHands said:
Cos I’d like to have a moan if so. What the fkitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.
I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
According to the usual Londonista on here this isn't happening and there are only a tiny number of 20mph roads in London. In reality the entire city is being covered with them with the latest proposals from the TfL imbeciles to further reduce some to 15mph in the next few years.kitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
Put simply they don't want you driving their precious city!
A couple (Islington is one) of boroughs have blanket 20mph limits though. This includes the A1.
We have them in our area oop north. 1 of them in particular is being reverted back to 30mph.
I couldn't quite believe it! The council have monitored the road and found it to be no safer as a 20 than before, when it was a 30! I believe they stated there has ever been a speed related accident there
However the council don't have the funds this year so it is on the list for sometime in the future!
I couldn't quite believe it! The council have monitored the road and found it to be no safer as a 20 than before, when it was a 30! I believe they stated there has ever been a speed related accident there
However the council don't have the funds this year so it is on the list for sometime in the future!
Type R Tom said:
cb1965 said:
According to the usual Londonista on here this isn't happening and there are only a tiny number of 20mph roads in London. In reality the entire city is being covered with them with the latest proposals from the TfL imbeciles to further reduce some to 15mph in the next few years.
Not sure where you heard that but 15mph isn't a legal limit so would require a change in law. Hackney said:
cb1965 said:
CoolHands said:
Cos I’d like to have a moan if so. What the fkitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.
I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
According to the usual Londonista on here this isn't happening and there are only a tiny number of 20mph roads in London. In reality the entire city is being covered with them with the latest proposals from the TfL imbeciles to further reduce some to 15mph in the next few years.kitty fk? These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.I tried actually travelling at that speed last night & it’s bloody ridiculous. Have you seriously tried it? Is this a council by council thing or some national policy? Who do I rant at about it? And I thought the evidence didn’t support it (from something published a few months ago IIRC?)
Put simply they don't want you driving their precious city!
A couple (Islington is one) of boroughs have blanket 20mph limits though. This includes the A1.
Yet another reason why a certain demographic is moving out of Londonstani leaving it to .......
Rural towns/villages such as the one I live in now awash with acres of middle class executive housing estates whose new owners never tell you the real reason why they escape what was THEIR capital city.
The joke is of course 20mph limits now appearing in said bucolic last bastions of Britishness.
Rural towns/villages such as the one I live in now awash with acres of middle class executive housing estates whose new owners never tell you the real reason why they escape what was THEIR capital city.
The joke is of course 20mph limits now appearing in said bucolic last bastions of Britishness.
CoolHands said:
These have started springing up around NW London on main (yes main) roads, I’ve just started noticing obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.
I noticed this the other day - especially the lack of signs indicating the end of the 20 zone - found myself in what I can only assume was now a 30 due to no 20 signs everywhere, but no indication of the end of the 20. obviously with non-defined start and end locations as I found out. One minute I was on a 20 road the next it had (presumably) finished as all the stupid 20s painted on the roads disappeared. No signage though.This was on a major road (Greenford Road - A4127, near Sudbury Hill station).
They've also just put a further restriction on another section - Sudbury Court Drive. This is a dual carriageway section with grass verges at the side and a central reservation and small roads running parallel at both sides with houses beyond - streetview link from when it was still a 40.
It was disappointing when they removed the NSL a few years back, and made it a 40. Went down there the other day to discover it's now 30, with dirty great speed humps all along it. Bad enough that it's been made a 30, but speed humps all the way along what is a major through road - really?
The problem will occur if / when they manage to implement average speed cameras across the whole network. Hopefully that will be too expensive to do because I’m going to breaking these limits every time I go out.
Oh actually I’ve just twigged as I write that - camera enforcement will be too expensive so what will happen is they roll out the 20 bullst now ready for when the cars have the gps speed limit chips due in 2022 or whenever it is, which will shortly after become unswitchoffable (my word)
Oh actually I’ve just twigged as I write that - camera enforcement will be too expensive so what will happen is they roll out the 20 bulls
t now ready for when the cars have the gps speed limit chips due in 2022 or whenever it is, which will shortly after become unswitchoffable (my word)Edited by CoolHands on Wednesday 1st May 20:09
CoolHands said:
The problem will occur if / when they manage to implement average speed cameras across the whole network. Hopefully that will be too expensive to do because I’m going to breaking these limits every time I go out.
Oh actually I’ve just twigged as I write that - camera enforcement will be too expensive so what will happen is they roll out the 20 bullst now ready for when the cars have the gps speed limit chips due in 2022 or whenever it is, which will shortly after become unswitchoffable (my word)
Why cover the roads in leather, when you can cover your feet?Oh actually I’ve just twigged as I write that - camera enforcement will be too expensive so what will happen is they roll out the 20 bulls
t now ready for when the cars have the gps speed limit chips due in 2022 or whenever it is, which will shortly after become unswitchoffable (my word)If nobody can "speed" - Nobody needs to enforce!
The likes of brake will be dumbfounded when accidents continue to occur after the widespread introduction of limiters...
CoolHands said:
st I use that road reasonably frequently I’ll go up and have a look tomorrow, can’t believe they’ve put speed bumps in? fking idiots
They already like to put a speed van at the bottom occasionally BTW so keep your eyes peeled as now they defo will if they’ve reduced the speed again
Yeah - I'm aware of the speed van, although given the speed humps, not much chance of going up/down it that fast anyway. More chance of speeding on the parallel side roads!! t I use that road reasonably frequently I’ll go up and have a look tomorrow, can’t believe they’ve put speed bumps in? fking idiotsThey already like to put a speed van at the bottom occasionally BTW so keep your eyes peeled as now they defo will if they’ve reduced the speed again
That road used to be good for a blast uphill when NSL (and maybe occasionally after the 40, so long as you checked for the speed van beforehand, and when there was little traffic about) as it's a dual carriageway, very good visibility, and no chance of anything pulling out unexpected, as you could see it on the parallel side roads from miles away.
I really don't get the reasoning that it was ok to do 70 up there a few years ago, then 40, and now it's not safe to do over 30 and needs speed humps. WTF???
There was a big fuss a few months back when a report came out that suggested that 20mph zones hadn't had any appreciable impact on traffic accidents. Only by reading the thing and getting to the small print near the end did it emerge that was because in most cases the speed limits were wholeheartedly ignored. If no change in traffic speeds before and after, don't expect any reduction in frequency or severity of accidents.
I might be in a minority here but especially as a parent of small children living in a residential area where there are 20mph signs everywhere and where traffic blazes through at 40mph plus, I think they are a good idea in principle (slower traffic means more cars can fit on the road at peak time and move rather than having bunching up queues and long sections of rat race so it actually speeds up journey times, it's safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and accidents at slower speed cause less damage or risk of injury) and would be a better idea if actually properly enforced. I'm scared to take my children walking on the pavement outside my house sometimes because of the speed some lunatics race along at and no-one should be condoning such irresponsible driving, even on these fora.
I might be in a minority here but especially as a parent of small children living in a residential area where there are 20mph signs everywhere and where traffic blazes through at 40mph plus, I think they are a good idea in principle (slower traffic means more cars can fit on the road at peak time and move rather than having bunching up queues and long sections of rat race so it actually speeds up journey times, it's safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and accidents at slower speed cause less damage or risk of injury) and would be a better idea if actually properly enforced. I'm scared to take my children walking on the pavement outside my house sometimes because of the speed some lunatics race along at and no-one should be condoning such irresponsible driving, even on these fora.
Chromegrill said:
There was a big fuss a few months back when a report came out that suggested that 20mph zones hadn't had any appreciable impact on traffic accidents. Only by reading the thing and getting to the small print near the end did it emerge that was because in most cases the speed limits were wholeheartedly ignored. If no change in traffic speeds before and after, don't expect any reduction in frequency or severity of accidents.
I might be in a minority here but especially as a parent of small children living in a residential area where there are 20mph signs everywhere and where traffic blazes through at 40mph plus, I think they are a good idea in principle (slower traffic means more cars can fit on the road at peak time and move rather than having bunching up queues and long sections of rat race so it actually speeds up journey times, it's safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and accidents at slower speed cause less damage or risk of injury) and would be a better idea if actually properly enforced. I'm scared to take my children walking on the pavement outside my house sometimes because of the speed some lunatics race along at and no-one should be condoning such irresponsible driving, even on these fora.
What you are saying is that people bombing through a housing estate at 40+ mph is the reason that the rest of us should be branded criminals for doing 25mph?I might be in a minority here but especially as a parent of small children living in a residential area where there are 20mph signs everywhere and where traffic blazes through at 40mph plus, I think they are a good idea in principle (slower traffic means more cars can fit on the road at peak time and move rather than having bunching up queues and long sections of rat race so it actually speeds up journey times, it's safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and accidents at slower speed cause less damage or risk of injury) and would be a better idea if actually properly enforced. I'm scared to take my children walking on the pavement outside my house sometimes because of the speed some lunatics race along at and no-one should be condoning such irresponsible driving, even on these fora.
The issue here is that there is no blanket speed that is appropriate. Almost every single circumstance demands a different speed and approach.
Whether it’s an nsl country road where there are tight zero visibility turns and open stretches of road, or a tiny housing estate with double parked cars or an open, deserted housing area with nothing going on you will find conflicting sensible limits - it’s quite simply impossible to say what the “limit” is and that’s the problem. We need real, actual policemen and women to make real world decisions about the actions of individuals.
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