Any employment law experts?
Discussion
Got summoned to the office, apparently i've taken one days holiday more than allowed.
Asked how this was possible as all holiday has to be approved by management before being allowed, you cannot take more than you have available (Evidently this is not true) Was told that it my responsibility to keep check on how many days i've taken, fair enough but the chart we have our allowance on is provided by the company and clearly states i have 28 days whereas it should be 27 days. As such i've taken 28 days, 1 more than i should have. I protested saying that it's this chart we go by but was told it's just a computer program, maybe so but it's the one the company provides with everyone's holiday dates and amount of holiday recorded on it. It's not a small company but a multi billion dollar corporation. There is numerous employees who are in the same boat, some owing more than a day or so.
Whichever way you look at it, it's their f
k up, they've allowed the extra days to be taken unnoticed, they've also essentially given an extra day mistakenly so it has been used unknowingly.
Obviously despite this i owe a days holiday, i said they could take it off next years entitlement, manager said no, the money will be taken instead, i said that's not acceptable as it was their fault, not interested, we shouldn't rely on the holiday chart (provided by the company, showing days for every employee)
Can they just deduct the days holiday from next months wages? Do they have to give an option of how it's paid back as it was their mistake? i.e. Via wages or a days reduction next year?
Asked how this was possible as all holiday has to be approved by management before being allowed, you cannot take more than you have available (Evidently this is not true) Was told that it my responsibility to keep check on how many days i've taken, fair enough but the chart we have our allowance on is provided by the company and clearly states i have 28 days whereas it should be 27 days. As such i've taken 28 days, 1 more than i should have. I protested saying that it's this chart we go by but was told it's just a computer program, maybe so but it's the one the company provides with everyone's holiday dates and amount of holiday recorded on it. It's not a small company but a multi billion dollar corporation. There is numerous employees who are in the same boat, some owing more than a day or so.
Whichever way you look at it, it's their f
k up, they've allowed the extra days to be taken unnoticed, they've also essentially given an extra day mistakenly so it has been used unknowingly. Obviously despite this i owe a days holiday, i said they could take it off next years entitlement, manager said no, the money will be taken instead, i said that's not acceptable as it was their fault, not interested, we shouldn't rely on the holiday chart (provided by the company, showing days for every employee)
Can they just deduct the days holiday from next months wages? Do they have to give an option of how it's paid back as it was their mistake? i.e. Via wages or a days reduction next year?
If it was me, in your boat, I'd go and see the manager again, and tell him, that if he takes 1 single penny off your wages, then he will need to start looking for your replacement.
And I'd be looking for a new job.
Take no st, leave them in the st.
I am.ignorant about employment law, but I do know about treating people with respect and valuing their commitment.
And I'd be looking for a new job.
Take no s
t, leave them in the st. I am.ignorant about employment law, but I do know about treating people with respect and valuing their commitment.
Depends what your contract says but in general unless a deduction is made for a reason covered by legislation it will be an unlawful deduction. If it’s not authorised by legislation then they have to make an agreement with you before they can take it.
What they should do is write to you informing you of the mistake and then offer an agreement to repay the issue that is acceptable to all parties.
What they should do is write to you informing you of the mistake and then offer an agreement to repay the issue that is acceptable to all parties.
I’m afraid I’m in the other camp. If you have taken a days holiday that’s not in your entitlement then as a professional your stance should be a willingness to pay it back.
You should, as a professional, ensure that the powers that be notice your attitude and commitment and take that into account as your role develops, since this is what separates you from the typical employee...
You should, as a professional, ensure that the powers that be notice your attitude and commitment and take that into account as your role develops, since this is what separates you from the typical employee...
mfmman said:
Quick question
28 days?
Does this include the eight (usually bank holidays, or days taken off in lieu of them) days?
If it does then the minimum allowance is 28.
28 days?
Does this include the eight (usually bank holidays, or days taken off in lieu of them) days?
If it does then the minimum allowance is 28.
plasticpig said:
How do they get 27 days? Statutory holiday entitlement is 28 days if you work full time.
Bank holidays are not included in the entitlement and are paid as normal work days. We don't operate bank holidays so there is no option to work them. Starting entitlement is 20 days plus bank holidays, i've accrued the extra over the past 19 years, ironically i earn an extra day in October when i get 20 years service. I've got no problem paying it back if i have to, it's more the principle of how they want to do it
p4cks said:
fk me what a petty little place you work in.
Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
Yes, except as an employer you take disappointment after disappointment. Take this month.k me what a petty little place you work in. Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
Respected employee. Requires nose operation. Approaches me - what’s the score boss? - I respond by telling him to take as much time as needed to feel better but to make that decision himself rather than the “guidelines” from the doctor. He agrees, and I agree to hold him on full pay, but note that if he wants to pop in to sit at a desk and cover light duties for a couple of hours a day in the latter part of the recovery then that would be amazing. He agrees.
Today I find out from his brother (also an employee and suffering a bit due to his brothers absence) that in fact now the guy is ok but is playing it out until the end of the doctors recommended 2 weeks off.
I text employee - how are you? When back? Hope you’re good?
And he says he is waiting until the 2 weeks is elapsed.
I’m not moaning - I’m sure there are 254 employment laws I’ve broken as a small business with no HR department but in my mind this guy has moved from respected employee to guy who will take the proverbial at any opportunity.
At an annual review can you not see how this will have an impact? And over maybe 1,2 days of downtime.
p4cks said:
fk me what a petty little place you work in.
Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
It's petty yes but despite recording billions on profit every year they strive to save every penny wherever possible even down to not providing lunch on an industry required training course. k me what a petty little place you work in. Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
Unfortunately i love the job despite the minor problems, i wouldn't earn close to what i do now doing something similar. That said, i'm not doing it for another 20 years.
Totally get that.
Except:
1) everyone doesn’t recover at the same rate. I’m saying - take as long as needed. He agrees. Then, after, he switched to medical opinion rather than how he felt, despite admitting to his brother that he was ok.
2) I did not need to have him held at full wages - I did so because I thought he had the company at least somewhere in his heart.
3) I was not even asking for a specific commitment. If he had popped in, made his colleagues a brew and answered a few questions to help those who were shouldering his role that would have been good with me.
It was the complete lack of two way respect that got me annoyed. That all.
Except:
1) everyone doesn’t recover at the same rate. I’m saying - take as long as needed. He agrees. Then, after, he switched to medical opinion rather than how he felt, despite admitting to his brother that he was ok.
2) I did not need to have him held at full wages - I did so because I thought he had the company at least somewhere in his heart.
3) I was not even asking for a specific commitment. If he had popped in, made his colleagues a brew and answered a few questions to help those who were shouldering his role that would have been good with me.
It was the complete lack of two way respect that got me annoyed. That all.
But, the important point is that I dominate the stairs and am powerfully built and have a selection of frying pans available (etc - whatever a small business owner had to admit to on here) - so for that reason all I’m saying is that by telling me one thing that seemed reasonable and then doing another this particular guy won’t be getting a wage rise this year. Simple as that. If he or you doesn’t like it then there are other, more gullible employers who will take him on but his actions have had a consequence. I know that’s rather controversial but try to switch places and see how you feel.
Ergo: it’s important to have a real world relationship with your employer. Try being reasonable and he/she might just surprise you!
Ergo: it’s important to have a real world relationship with your employer. Try being reasonable and he/she might just surprise you!
Julian Thompson said:
p4cks said:
fk me what a petty little place you work in.
Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
Yes, except as an employer you take disappointment after disappointment. Take this month.k me what a petty little place you work in. Give them their money, and start to look for a more appreciative and understanding employer.
Respected employee. Requires nose operation. Approaches me - what’s the score boss? - I respond by telling him to take as much time as needed to feel better but to make that decision himself rather than the “guidelines” from the doctor. He agrees, and I agree to hold him on full pay, but note that if he wants to pop in to sit at a desk and cover light duties for a couple of hours a day in the latter part of the recovery then that would be amazing. He agrees.
Today I find out from his brother (also an employee and suffering a bit due to his brothers absence) that in fact now the guy is ok but is playing it out until the end of the doctors recommended 2 weeks off.
I text employee - how are you? When back? Hope you’re good?
And he says he is waiting until the 2 weeks is elapsed.
I’m not moaning - I’m sure there are 254 employment laws I’ve broken as a small business with no HR department but in my mind this guy has moved from respected employee to guy who will take the proverbial at any opportunity.
At an annual review can you not see how this will have an impact? And over maybe 1,2 days of downtime.
My last place, I was a senior engineer reporting only too the owner, the owner listened too much to whiny employees, they used to demonise this one young lad, made him out to be lazy, untrustworthy and all that nonsense. Truth be told he was an absolute asset to the company, the only time he was less than productive was when other people hadn't done their jobs and left him in the sh*t, when he screwed up he'd do unpaid overtime to fix his mistakes. He reminded me of myself at his age, ambitious but struggling with other staff making his life difficult and trying to get him into trouble.
It's probably one of biggest pet hates, people whining about their colleagues, all it does is get someone into trouble and brings about in a more oppressive work environment for everyone else.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff