UK Driving Licence Laws
Discussion
I passed my test in 1969, when I was 17, in the UK and currently I have a UK driving License, with the address of the last property I owned in the UK, and sold in 2002, the picture is from 2001.
I never use the licence as i have others that are frankly easier to use if I hire a car, (they don't have a requirement to have any advance information sent from the DVLA).
I don't carry the UK licence as I don't consider I'm entitled to use it.
But as I approach 70 I'm unsure what to do, my wife owns a UK property so I could have a contact address, (she is not a UK citizen) and neither of us are resident in the UK for any purpose, tax or otherwise, and my name hasn't been on an election role since 1981,
But I do have a UK state and private pension, so NHI number and as a citizen the right to return at any time.
There are no points or outstanding notices of intended prosecution on the licence, so I doubt if the DVLA know the address is out of date, and my reading of the picture law is its illegal to 'use' a license with an outdated picture, I don't think there is any offence committed as the license is not used, and as stated earlier the offense by my reading is using the license.
I have no health or vision issues, in fact I still hold a full FIA sanctioned international circuit license, with the last full medical given in Feb this year, and do around 6K miles a year on a super bike, so I'm not a retired Volvo driver.
I'd like to keep the license valid in case I ever decide to return to the UK.
My question then is, as 70 approaches is it simply a matter of updating the address, picture and medical disclaimer, or am I opening Pandora's box?
I never use the licence as i have others that are frankly easier to use if I hire a car, (they don't have a requirement to have any advance information sent from the DVLA).
I don't carry the UK licence as I don't consider I'm entitled to use it.
But as I approach 70 I'm unsure what to do, my wife owns a UK property so I could have a contact address, (she is not a UK citizen) and neither of us are resident in the UK for any purpose, tax or otherwise, and my name hasn't been on an election role since 1981,
But I do have a UK state and private pension, so NHI number and as a citizen the right to return at any time.
There are no points or outstanding notices of intended prosecution on the licence, so I doubt if the DVLA know the address is out of date, and my reading of the picture law is its illegal to 'use' a license with an outdated picture, I don't think there is any offence committed as the license is not used, and as stated earlier the offense by my reading is using the license.
I have no health or vision issues, in fact I still hold a full FIA sanctioned international circuit license, with the last full medical given in Feb this year, and do around 6K miles a year on a super bike, so I'm not a retired Volvo driver.
I'd like to keep the license valid in case I ever decide to return to the UK.
My question then is, as 70 approaches is it simply a matter of updating the address, picture and medical disclaimer, or am I opening Pandora's box?
You have to renew it when the picture is 10 years old. Therefore, it expired in 2011 if the picture was valid in 2001.
They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
You *can* be fined up to £1000 for not informing the DVLA when you address changes.
https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence
https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence
BIG DUNC said:
You have to renew it when the picture is 10 years old. Therefore, it expired in 2011 if the picture was valid in 2001.
They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
My reading is that he has the original 'green license' that predated pictures.They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
These did not expire until you hit 70 I think.
OP,I suspect you could just update with a change of address to your wife's property. You will of course move to a photocard license at this point.
HiAsAKite said:
BIG DUNC said:
You have to renew it when the picture is 10 years old. Therefore, it expired in 2011 if the picture was valid in 2001.
They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
My reading is that he has the original 'green license' that predated pictures.They would have written to you at the address on the licence, a couple of months before it expired, but as you hadn't advised them of the address change (which you are required to do) then you didn't receive this.
These did not expire until you hit 70 I think.
OP,I suspect you could just update with a change of address to your wife's property. You will of course move to a photocard license at this point.
If OP has a photo licence it has long since expired.
As pointed out, the letter telling him went to the address on the licence.
Renewal can be made online, and if OP has a UK passport they can import that photograph to the new licence. No need to provide new picture.
https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence
If OP renews now, he will have to renew again at 70 and every three years there-after.
https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70
Note, to renew a UK licence you must be a resident of the UK.
Of course, some might consider having a punt on a UK address they don't actually live at,owned by a family member, on the basis that 'the Man will never find out'.
What will they do? Say no?
Let us know how it turns out!
As pointed out, the letter telling him went to the address on the licence.
Renewal can be made online, and if OP has a UK passport they can import that photograph to the new licence. No need to provide new picture.
https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence
If OP renews now, he will have to renew again at 70 and every three years there-after.
https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence-at-70
Note, to renew a UK licence you must be a resident of the UK.
Of course, some might consider having a punt on a UK address they don't actually live at,owned by a family member, on the basis that 'the Man will never find out'.
What will they do? Say no?
Let us know how it turns out!
Skellum said:
If OP has a photo licence it has long since expired.
The photocard will have expired but this is not the same as the licence expiring. Entitlement to drive (for cars/motorcycles) remains valid until the holder is 70 at which point the licence expires and has to be renewed.It is an offence to fail to surrender a photocard at the end of its administrative validity period (10 years for cars) but failing to do has no effect on the entitlement to drive.
Cat
Rivenink said:
You *can* be fined up to £1000 for not informing the DVLA when you address changes.
https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence
There are hundreds of things the DVLA can fine you for and given half a chance they will.https://www.gov.uk/change-address-driving-licence
OK that's interesting, some us-full comments and appreciated.
I'm accept I'm in a strange situation, they'd have a problem proving an offence, of not changing address, or updating the picture, as I don't have a UK address or family in the UK, and the DVLA refuse to accept a foreign address, (my parents died years ago, and my kids all live overseas, and no siblings),
Already had this argument with the police in 1984, when I said I couldn't provide a UK contact address after I was stopped for speeding. They had big problem with that at the time, I had a foreign (European) incense that required me to surrender the British one, but a British Passport, and no family to provide an address, this was before the days of the 'dummy' license so thy let me go.
I think I've done the the right thing to let the license, 'die', as I say I've never used it.
It is a photo license, my wife lived at a family home in the UK in 2001 so I changed it then,
My wife recently bought a house in the UK, but it is in her name only, and stands empty, and she didn't have it when the photo license expired. Last time I was in the UK was 2016.
Easy enough for me to legally be 'A British Resident' for a few months but not worth the tax and inheritance tax risk, I'm set up so I don't need probate in the UK.and have formal letter from HRMC telling me i have no obligation to file for UK tax (You can't get that today).
From what I'm reading I don't think I've committed any offense but If I returned to the UK, I could 'turn' the license back on, and that's what I'd like in an ideal world, I'm actually very unlikely to return, I don;t like the prices or the weather
I'm accept I'm in a strange situation, they'd have a problem proving an offence, of not changing address, or updating the picture, as I don't have a UK address or family in the UK, and the DVLA refuse to accept a foreign address, (my parents died years ago, and my kids all live overseas, and no siblings),
Already had this argument with the police in 1984, when I said I couldn't provide a UK contact address after I was stopped for speeding. They had big problem with that at the time, I had a foreign (European) incense that required me to surrender the British one, but a British Passport, and no family to provide an address, this was before the days of the 'dummy' license so thy let me go.
I think I've done the the right thing to let the license, 'die', as I say I've never used it.
It is a photo license, my wife lived at a family home in the UK in 2001 so I changed it then,
My wife recently bought a house in the UK, but it is in her name only, and stands empty, and she didn't have it when the photo license expired. Last time I was in the UK was 2016.
Easy enough for me to legally be 'A British Resident' for a few months but not worth the tax and inheritance tax risk, I'm set up so I don't need probate in the UK.and have formal letter from HRMC telling me i have no obligation to file for UK tax (You can't get that today).
From what I'm reading I don't think I've committed any offense but If I returned to the UK, I could 'turn' the license back on, and that's what I'd like in an ideal world, I'm actually very unlikely to return, I don;t like the prices or the weather
DVLA guidance can be contradictory.
When I left UK I rang them.
Firstly I was told I should surrender my licence and they would send me a letter stating that I held a UK licence but lived out of country.
Second time I called I was informed that as long as I had an address I could be contacted at; not a problem.
I've had it registered to my parent's house.
So I now have two licences.
I was able to hire a car in UK on UK licence with no issue last year and a nice Audi A8 V8 in Spain on my Indo licence.
I looked in to this and there are PO box places that offer a proper address and not just a PO box number - that would have been another option. Or register to a friends address or another relation.
UK licence is quite handy - I wouldn't be giving it up.
When I left UK I rang them.
Firstly I was told I should surrender my licence and they would send me a letter stating that I held a UK licence but lived out of country.
Second time I called I was informed that as long as I had an address I could be contacted at; not a problem.
I've had it registered to my parent's house.
So I now have two licences.
I was able to hire a car in UK on UK licence with no issue last year and a nice Audi A8 V8 in Spain on my Indo licence.
I looked in to this and there are PO box places that offer a proper address and not just a PO box number - that would have been another option. Or register to a friends address or another relation.
UK licence is quite handy - I wouldn't be giving it up.
Jeff, I'm not sure there can be a definitive answer, when I lived in Norway in the early 80's I surrendered my UK license, so no way I could return it to the DVLA, In Malaysia they just wanted to see it in '97, and then renew every 5 years. So I never use the UK one.
The idea you return your license when you leave is not really possible, like a lot of people I left for 2 weeks in 81, came back in 93, then left for 6 months in 97.
I have no one in the UK to use as an address, as I say I haven't been there for 3 years, I don't use it. My plan is to retire in Indonesia, I have a nice place near the beach in N Java, so interested in your experiences there, but i'd like to be able to ''turn'' the UK license on if I returned, it appears 'turning it on' is possible.
I don't want a UK address for tax reasons,
.
The idea you return your license when you leave is not really possible, like a lot of people I left for 2 weeks in 81, came back in 93, then left for 6 months in 97.
I have no one in the UK to use as an address, as I say I haven't been there for 3 years, I don't use it. My plan is to retire in Indonesia, I have a nice place near the beach in N Java, so interested in your experiences there, but i'd like to be able to ''turn'' the UK license on if I returned, it appears 'turning it on' is possible.
I don't want a UK address for tax reasons,
.
Berw said:
Jeff, I'm not sure there can be a definitive answer, when I lived in Norway in the early 80's I surrendered my UK license, so no way I could return it to the DVLA, In Malaysia they just wanted to see it in '97, and then renew every 5 years. So I never use the UK one.
The idea you return your license when you leave is not really possible, like a lot of people I left for 2 weeks in 81, came back in 93, then left for 6 months in 97.
I have no one in the UK to use as an address, as I say I haven't been there for 3 years, I don't use it. My plan is to retire in Indonesia, I have a nice place near the beach in N Java, so interested in your experiences there, but i'd like to be able to ''turn'' the UK license on if I returned, it appears 'turning it on' is possible.
I don't want a UK address for tax reasons,
.
Interesting isn't it.The idea you return your license when you leave is not really possible, like a lot of people I left for 2 weeks in 81, came back in 93, then left for 6 months in 97.
I have no one in the UK to use as an address, as I say I haven't been there for 3 years, I don't use it. My plan is to retire in Indonesia, I have a nice place near the beach in N Java, so interested in your experiences there, but i'd like to be able to ''turn'' the UK license on if I returned, it appears 'turning it on' is possible.
I don't want a UK address for tax reasons,
.
I presume the system has never been thought through properly. Must be a lot of people in the same boat.
I can't see why, if you went back to UK, you couldn't call the DVLA and explain you are now back in UK and need a UK licence again. You should be on the system - just need to give your driver number, I guess.
Since I don't earn any money that's paid in UK I'm not worried about a driver's licence having my parent's address.
You could go the PO box route as suggested (I did for a year) get them to forward a new licence then cancel thePO box. You then have a new licence with 10 years on it and no UK address. If you return to UK, just do a change of address.
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