Another fine example of BRITISH JUSTICE.

[un1corn]

https://news.sky.com/story/banned-driver-who-kille...

Drive dangerously via showing off, previously disqualified twice, smash into a house, kill a 90 year old pensioner, lie to police and show no honesty or remorse.

4 years inside....

laughable.

[Dave Hedgehog]

un1corn said:

https://news.sky.com/story/banned-driver-who-kille...

Drive dangerously via showing off, previously disqualified twice, smash into a house, kill a 90 year old pensioner, lie to police and show no honesty or remorse.

4 years inside....

laughable.

but she wasn't doing 90 on a mway so no real harm ...

[markjmd]

Easy to criticize this as another example of British justice not living up to its name, but you have to wonder also exactly where in the world the perp might have received a more severe sentence. I expect in a lot of places they would have got off even more lightly, in fact.

[WCNFSL117]

un1corn said:

https://news.sky.com/story/banned-driver-who-kille...

Drive dangerously via showing off, previously disqualified twice, smash into a house, kill a 90 year old pensioner, lie to police and show no honesty or remorse.

4 years inside....

laughable.

st like this makes me sick; the next ruling party need to get a serious grip on crime and punishment. What kind of message does that sentence send?

He'll probably be out in two....

[anonymous-user]

Grim incident, but where's the rant aimed at?

The courts? Fine, get them to sentence more harshly. In about 6 months we run out of prison spaces.

Then the government for not paying for more expensive prisons (the ones which exist aren't funded properly)?

[grumpy52]

La Liga said:

Grim incident, but where's the rant aimed at?

The courts? Fine, get them to sentence more harshly. In about 6 months we run out of prison spaces.

Then the government for not paying for more expensive prisons (the ones which exist aren't funded properly)?

If the leaders actually cracked the whip with the civil servants who were charged with emptying our institutions of all those due for deportation and those failed asylum seekers it would certainly help with prison spaces .
All the institutions local to me have been turned into immigration /asylum centers or have been closed .

[sim72]

grumpy52 said:

If the leaders actually cracked the whip with the civil servants who were charged with emptying our institutions of all those due for deportation and those failed asylum seekers it would certainly help with prison spaces .
All the institutions local to me have been turned into immigration /asylum centers or have been closed .

According to Asylum In Europe (who would have every reason to inflate the figure if possible), there were only 366 asylum seekers in prisons at the end of December 2018. Even the Immigration Removal Centres are only half-full at the moment. No, the issue is lack of space and also (surprisingly) longer sentencing - according to the Government, 46% of prisoners were serving a sentence of 4 years or more in 2018 - whereas in 2010 it was only 33%.

[Fast and Spurious]

WCNFSL117 said:

un1corn said:

https://news.sky.com/story/banned-driver-who-kille...

Drive dangerously via showing off, previously disqualified twice, smash into a house, kill a 90 year old pensioner, lie to police and show no honesty or remorse.

4 years inside....

laughable.

st like this makes me sick; the next ruling party need to get a serious grip on crime and punishment. What kind of message does that sentence send?

He'll probably be out in two....

After a sex change?

[SS2.]

WCNFSL117 said:

He'll probably be out in two....

I can only assume you didn't read the article.

[mbcx4jrh]

sim72 said:

According to Asylum In Europe (who would have every reason to inflate the figure if possible), there were only 366 asylum seekers in prisons at the end of December 2018. Even the Immigration Removal Centres are only half-full at the moment. No, the issue is lack of space and also (surprisingly) longer sentencing - according to the Government, 46% of prisoners were serving a sentence of 4 years or more in 2018 - whereas in 2010 it was only 33%.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a racist rant about immigrants!

[RemyMartin81D]

It's when I read stories like this I can't help but think and hope someone like her gets a shiv repeatedly to the guts.

[Mandat]

mbcx4jrh said:

sim72 said:

According to Asylum In Europe (who would have every reason to inflate the figure if possible), there were only 366 asylum seekers in prisons at the end of December 2018. Even the Immigration Removal Centres are only half-full at the moment. No, the issue is lack of space and also (surprisingly) longer sentencing - according to the Government, 46% of prisoners were serving a sentence of 4 years or more in 2018 - whereas in 2010 it was only 33%.

Let's not let the facts get in the way of a racist rant about immigrants!

It might be a rant about immigrants but where do you see racism in what was said?

[Julian Thompson]

I think you’re being unrealistic. This woman has been jailed for YEARS for her crime.

It’s a VERY significant punishment that will affect the rest of her life.

She lost control of a van that she shouldn’t have been driving.

If she had crashed into a ditch the actual offence would have been the same. The outcome different - and therefore the sentence different.

You have to be very careful what you wish for.

I seem to recall a chap with a landrover falling asleep at the wheel and running off the motorway, causing a train crash. He got the book thrown at him and yet I’d immediately wonder why there were no barriers? Why was his falling asleep worse than someone else that was lucky? They still fell asleep.

In my opinion then sentence was fine. It is a tragic accident - but we have to start to understand that no matter how much we would like to try to pin blame there will always be accidents, vehicular or otherwise.

[Zetec-S]

SS2. said:

WCNFSL117 said:

He'll probably be out in two....

I can only assume you didn't read the article.

Don’t let that get in the way of a good rant.

[Red Devil]

Julian Thompson said:

I seem to recall a chap with a landrover falling asleep at the wheel and running off the motorway, causing a train crash.

Gary Hart. Another one who deflected responsibility.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-y...

Julian Thompson said:

He got the book thrown at him and yet I’d immediately wonder why there were no barriers?

He was sentenced to 5 years inside.
There were barriers. Some controversy at the time whether they were adequate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_rail_cras...

This is where he left the road.
https://goo.gl/maps/ZEJByjYRuwpJMRZG9
The IC125 and the freight train collided at the next bridge further south.
https://goo.gl/maps/9YXJ9RDWKptvErn28

Julian Thompson said:

Why was his falling asleep worse than someone else that was lucky? They still fell asleep.

It wasn't. The consequences were.

Julian Thompson said:

In my opinion then sentence was fine. It is a tragic accident - but we have to start to understand that no matter how much we would like to try to pin blame there will always be accidents, vehicular or otherwise.

I totally disagree. Hart should not have been driving due to fatigue. That was wholly within his control.
Bibby is a twice disqualified driver who appears to have no conscience. Utter scumbag.

[kestral]

Julian Thompson said:

I think you’re being unrealistic. This woman has been jailed for YEARS for her crime.

It’s a VERY significant punishment that will affect the rest of her life.

She lost control of a van that she shouldn’t have been driving.

If she had crashed into a ditch the actual offence would have been the same. The outcome different - and therefore the sentence different.

You have to be very careful what you wish for.

I seem to recall a chap with a landrover falling asleep at the wheel and running off the motorway, causing a train crash. He got the book thrown at him and yet I’d immediately wonder why there were no barriers? Why was his falling asleep worse than someone else that was lucky? They still fell asleep.

In my opinion then sentence was fine. It is a tragic accident - but we have to start to understand that no matter how much we would like to try to pin blame there will always be accidents, vehicular or otherwise.

She will do 2 1/2 years she should be doing 10 yrs.

[Burwood]

markjmd said:

Easy to criticize this as another example of British justice not living up to its name, but you have to wonder also exactly where in the world the perp might have received a more severe sentence. I expect in a lot of places they would have got off even more lightly, in fact.

Exactly. Last year in NZ a young girl high on weed and drunk knocked down a boy on his bike, killed him and drove off. Got off Scott free. She then posted a picture online of her in a prison jump suit with a grim reaper made up face and a cation ‘lock Up your children’. She needed police protection after that but still no prison. Disgrace!

[Julian Thompson]

Red Devil said:

Julian Thompson said:

I seem to recall a chap with a landrover falling asleep at the wheel and running off the motorway, causing a train crash.

Gary Hart. Another one who deflected responsibility.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-y...

Julian Thompson said:

He got the book thrown at him and yet I’d immediately wonder why there were no barriers?

He was sentenced to 5 years inside.
There were barriers. Some controversy at the time whether they were adequate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Heck_rail_cras...

This is where he left the road.
https://goo.gl/maps/ZEJByjYRuwpJMRZG9
The IC125 and the freight train collided at the next bridge further south.
https://goo.gl/maps/9YXJ9RDWKptvErn28

Julian Thompson said:

Why was his falling asleep worse than someone else that was lucky? They still fell asleep.

It wasn't. The consequences were.

Julian Thompson said:

In my opinion then sentence was fine. It is a tragic accident - but we have to start to understand that no matter how much we would like to try to pin blame there will always be accidents, vehicular or otherwise.

I totally disagree. Hart should not have been driving due to fatigue. That was wholly within his control.
Bibby is a twice disqualified driver who appears to have no conscience. Utter scumbag.

Thanks for the detail on that, great post.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with you.

The final outcome determines the legal consequences far too much for my liking - the moral offence itself lost from perspective. Many people fall asleep at the wheel. Many people don’t have the misfortune to cause a train accident.

Many people get caught for drug driving and crashing but they don’t have the misfortune to kill someone.

And of course, even if you do kill one or two people it’s helpful if your Dad is a policeman:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...

Meanwhile, whilst we continue to jail/not jail our more unfortunate citizens who have accidents caused by being stupid we are not on top of dealing with gangs and rapists and knife wielding lunatics.

The priorities are all wrong and the sentencing is inconsistent. When people are getting jailed for fitting laser Jammers and driving too fast but kids that wipe out pedestrians whilst on drugs aren’t it’s difficult to keep a straight face and say the system is working well

Just my view, obviously. Full respect to your own.

Edited to add:

I suppose there is a lot of weight to say “the range of penalties you could receive ranges from X to Y depending on how lucky/unlucky you are with the outcome of the offence. That then does make sense to be fair.

Edited by Julian Thompson on Sunday 26th May 13:16

[anonymous-user]

Julian Thompson said:

Thanks for the detail on that, great post.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with you.

The final outcome determines the legal consequences far too much for my liking - the moral offence itself lost from perspective. Many people fall asleep at the wheel. Many people don’t have the misfortune to cause a train accident.

Many people get caught for drug driving and crashing but they don’t have the misfortune to kill someone.

We do sentence on outcome with a lot of offences, which encompasses an element of chance.

Someone who presents the same risk but doesn't create the same outcome can get a much lesser sentence.

But what's the alternative?

Julian Thompson said:

And of course, even if you do kill one or two people it’s helpful if your Dad is a policeman:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...

What happens when it's your mum who is the police officer?

You mean it's helpful when there isn't sufficient evidence of a driving standard offence against you and you're in youth court.

[Julian Thompson]

La Liga said:

Julian Thompson said:

Thanks for the detail on that, great post.

Unfortunately I don’t agree with you.

The final outcome determines the legal consequences far too much for my liking - the moral offence itself lost from perspective. Many people fall asleep at the wheel. Many people don’t have the misfortune to cause a train accident.

Many people get caught for drug driving and crashing but they don’t have the misfortune to kill someone.

We do sentence on outcome with a lot of offences, which encompasses an element of chance.

Someone who presents the same risk but doesn't create the same outcome can get a much lesser sentence.

But what's the alternative?

Julian Thompson said:

And of course, even if you do kill one or two people it’s helpful if your Dad is a policeman:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...

What happens when it's your mum who is the police officer?

You mean it's helpful when there isn't sufficient evidence of a driving standard offence against you and you're in youth court.

Yep - understood - good points and I’ll take them all.

I would like to leave on the table though the lasting feeling that it is easy to be flippant, suggesting that one, two, whatever years in prison isn’t a harsh penalty, and yet in reality a custodial sentence of any type is the maximum penalty anyone can pay in this country - it’s a big deal.

I can’t leave the discussion without bringing up the rail crash guy again either. Let’s imagine for a moment that a genuine mechanical failure had cause the accident. Would it then be the railway or the highways agency in the dock because they didn’t consider the consequences of an accident? If so, then it’s wrong that snoozer got the penalty.