Dangerous Driving and pleas
Discussion
Friend of mine (no, honestly) has been done for dangerous driving after some pretty sketchy driving (speeding, overtakes, etc). Was spotted and pursued by a panda car from a distance and later caught. The summons has arrived, they have charged him for Dangerous Driving (they haven't charged him for failing to stop as they were too far behind to argue that he saw them). I've done some research to try and figure out potential outcomes for him.
The summons is for a magistrates court - this mean from what I understand that outcomes are 12month ban + extended retest as a minimum, onward to a maximum of 6 months inside. I've heard of people managing to get their dangerous driving charges reduced to Driving without due care and attention, which can be 3-9 points instead of a 1yr ban.
He needs a car for work and has a signed letter from his manager saying that he will lose his job if he loses his licence. He is wondering if he should enter an early guilty plea, or try and argue the case down to DWDCA. He can't afford a solicitor and has obviously not been offered one through legal aid. Whats the best option in your experience? He'd really like to avoid the 1yr ban / prison for obvious reasons. On what grounds have people argued DD down to DWDCA and did they do so self representing or with a solicitor?
Please do spare posting any moral judgements - they will go to waste as A) it wasn't me and B) he's well already well aware.
The summons is for a magistrates court - this mean from what I understand that outcomes are 12month ban + extended retest as a minimum, onward to a maximum of 6 months inside. I've heard of people managing to get their dangerous driving charges reduced to Driving without due care and attention, which can be 3-9 points instead of a 1yr ban.
He needs a car for work and has a signed letter from his manager saying that he will lose his job if he loses his licence. He is wondering if he should enter an early guilty plea, or try and argue the case down to DWDCA. He can't afford a solicitor and has obviously not been offered one through legal aid. Whats the best option in your experience? He'd really like to avoid the 1yr ban / prison for obvious reasons. On what grounds have people argued DD down to DWDCA and did they do so self representing or with a solicitor?
Please do spare posting any moral judgements - they will go to waste as A) it wasn't me and B) he's well already well aware.
Edited by Gooly on Monday 27th May 22:11
Point him in the direction of PHer agtlaw, who's an expert in the field?
His website is here: http://www.counsel.direct
If your friend stands to lose his job then it'd be money well spent, I'd have thought, and certainly worth finding out how much it might cost before saying he can't afford a solicitor.
His website is here: http://www.counsel.direct
If your friend stands to lose his job then it'd be money well spent, I'd have thought, and certainly worth finding out how much it might cost before saying he can't afford a solicitor.
Spoken to him and he's now considering a solicitor as job is on the line, I agree its money well spent. Still useful to hear of past experiences and feedback though. I have pointed him to the CPS guidance on DD and DWDCA here: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic...
If anyone has reduced their DD charge to DWDCA could they please post up their experiences? What were the circumstances around the offence and what were their arguments?
If anyone has reduced their DD charge to DWDCA could they please post up their experiences? What were the circumstances around the offence and what were their arguments?
Gooly said:
Spoken to him and he's now considering a solicitor as job is on the line, I agree its money well spent. Still useful to hear of past experiences and feedback though. I have pointed him to the CPS guidance on DD and DWDCA here: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/road-traffic...
If anyone has reduced their DD charge to DWDCA could they please post up their experiences? What were the circumstances around the offence and what were their arguments?
I won't go into details (there's no point, as you'll see) but I had a DD argued back to a DWDCA in my younger and more stupid days. However, it was only because my excellent brief pointed out that at no point had I endangered any other road user but myself. It sounds from your original post that this was not the case in this situation ("overtakes"). If anyone has reduced their DD charge to DWDCA could they please post up their experiences? What were the circumstances around the offence and what were their arguments?
sim72 said:
I won't go into details (there's no point, as you'll see) but I had a DD argued back to a DWDCA in my younger and more stupid days. However, it was only because my excellent brief pointed out that at no point had I endangered any other road user but myself. It sounds from your original post that this was not the case in this situation ("overtakes").
I see - so in doing so you effectively argued that your driving did not constitute a "danger of personal injury or of serious damage to property" as per s.2A(3) RTA 1988. I guess the manner of overtakes and speed would be the salient factor here.
.PorkInsider said:
Point him in the direction of PHer agtlaw, who's an expert in the field?
His website is here: http://www.counsel.direct
If your friend stands to lose his job then it'd be money well spent, I'd have thought, and certainly worth finding out how much it might cost before saying he can't afford a solicitor.
Quoted in case this best response gets buried and overlooked!His website is here: http://www.counsel.direct
If your friend stands to lose his job then it'd be money well spent, I'd have thought, and certainly worth finding out how much it might cost before saying he can't afford a solicitor.
When I was a witness for a dangerous driving case after a severe accident it went to the magistrates court first and then they then passed it onto the crown court which was a waste of a day.
Perpetrator eventually ended up with DWDCA and 5 points (quite lenient) as they were a cab driver and pleaded poverty.
Perpetrator eventually ended up with DWDCA and 5 points (quite lenient) as they were a cab driver and pleaded poverty.
Edited by untakenname on Tuesday 28th May 10:40
There are many factors which may either aggravate or ameliorate the situation; a call to a solicitor will at least get the basic facts on the table and enable your friend to assess whether he has any real grounds for seeking to go for a lesser charge or whether pleading and mitigating is the right approach.
Almost all solicitors will give you a 10-15 minute phone call for free and an honest assessment of success. In many cases an early plea to DWDCA rather than the expense of prosecuting a DD charge (and the concomitant risk of losing) will sway the CPS, but obviously it depends entirely on the facts in this case.
Whatever your friend has to do - sell a kidney, flog his car etc etc - he absolutely needs to have good legal advice (a) right now (b) when he appears in court. Otherwise he'll be a lamb to the slaughter and will certainly get a long ban/big fine and the real possibility of time inside; in either event he loses his job.
Almost all solicitors will give you a 10-15 minute phone call for free and an honest assessment of success. In many cases an early plea to DWDCA rather than the expense of prosecuting a DD charge (and the concomitant risk of losing) will sway the CPS, but obviously it depends entirely on the facts in this case.
Whatever your friend has to do - sell a kidney, flog his car etc etc - he absolutely needs to have good legal advice (a) right now (b) when he appears in court. Otherwise he'll be a lamb to the slaughter and will certainly get a long ban/big fine and the real possibility of time inside; in either event he loses his job.
Gooly said:
Just learnt that he has actually been offered a solicitor on legal aid so that's a bonus. Going to leave it with them for now and see what happens. Didn't realise you can still get legal aid on motoring cases
You get legal aid for the serious stuff - basically, when it's likely that you will lose your livelihood and/or go to prison - which goes to show just how dire your friend's predicament is. Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
Gooly said:
Just learnt that he has actually been offered a solicitor on legal aid so thats a bonus. Going to leave it with them for now and see what happens. Didnt realise you can still get legal aid on motoring cases
Worse than useless. He needs to get his own solicitor.If you're thinking that'll be some sort of US-style cheapo public defender, you'd be wrong. It's more the case that the solicitor has (somehow) successfully made an application for legal aid on his behalf.
Byker28i said:
A friend's husband was charged with this, pulled across a road and was hit by a car coming in the other direction. He got 9 points on his licence and a huge fine.
If that is how it happened, would not be charged as dangerous, more likely driving without due care, hence the penaltyForums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff