Strange civil law probate question..
Discussion
Admin please delete if not suitable etc, but I understand there are some very knowledgeable people on here.
So..
My step dad has recently died, and I understand his estate is going to probate.
My mum and step dad were married for 5 years. I understand probate means that my mother gets up to £250k, and then it’s shared between his two daughters... however, his estate is not of huge value without the house. The house is the complex part.
The house is probably worth £5-600,000. The house was initially bought by my step father and his ex-wife, I am unsure whether it was joint tenancy or tennants in common. My understanding is that if bought joint tennants, then his ex wife, as the surviving owner inherits 100%, correct? My main query is to ask, upon their divorce, does it automatically become tenants in common, 50/50 ownership?
My mum has paid for the majority of bills, food shopping etc in that time (other than the mortgage), and I am worried that she will have no interest in the house.
Thanks...
So..
My step dad has recently died, and I understand his estate is going to probate.
My mum and step dad were married for 5 years. I understand probate means that my mother gets up to £250k, and then it’s shared between his two daughters... however, his estate is not of huge value without the house. The house is the complex part.
The house is probably worth £5-600,000. The house was initially bought by my step father and his ex-wife, I am unsure whether it was joint tenancy or tennants in common. My understanding is that if bought joint tennants, then his ex wife, as the surviving owner inherits 100%, correct? My main query is to ask, upon their divorce, does it automatically become tenants in common, 50/50 ownership?
My mum has paid for the majority of bills, food shopping etc in that time (other than the mortgage), and I am worried that she will have no interest in the house.
Thanks...
In order:
SF and Wife1 buy a house. You don’t know how they held it.
SF and W1 divorce. It looks like SF continues to live in the house post divorce.
When divorcing, it’s very likely some express provision was made for the house. If SF continued to live in it, seems likely he was sole owner post divorce.
SF remarries your mother. SF dies. Probate means he left a will. The will will state what happens to the house. It sounds from your reference to £250k that you are confusing intestacy rules with what happens when there is a will.
If your mother paid towards the house but now has nothing, there are legal claims that in principle she might be able to bring. But they are highly fact specific. She’d need to speak to a solicitor (a good one). And any claim she brought would be expensive.
SF and Wife1 buy a house. You don’t know how they held it.
SF and W1 divorce. It looks like SF continues to live in the house post divorce.
When divorcing, it’s very likely some express provision was made for the house. If SF continued to live in it, seems likely he was sole owner post divorce.
SF remarries your mother. SF dies. Probate means he left a will. The will will state what happens to the house. It sounds from your reference to £250k that you are confusing intestacy rules with what happens when there is a will.
If your mother paid towards the house but now has nothing, there are legal claims that in principle she might be able to bring. But they are highly fact specific. She’d need to speak to a solicitor (a good one). And any claim she brought would be expensive.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 11th June 23:24
Greg66 said:
In order:
SF and Wife1 buy a house. You don’t know how they held it.
SF and W1 divorce. It looks like SF continues to live in the house post divorce.
When divorcing, it’s very likely some express provision was made for the house. If SF continued to live in it, seems likely he was sole owner post divorce.
SF remarries your mother. SF dies. Probate means he left a will. The will will state what happens to the house. It sounds from your reference to £250k that you are confusing intestacy rules with what happens when there is a will.
If your mother paid towards the house but now has nothing, there are legal claims that in principle she might be able to bring. But they are highly fact specific. She’d need to speak to a solicitor (a good one). And any claim she brought would be expensive.
Thank you.SF and Wife1 buy a house. You don’t know how they held it.
SF and W1 divorce. It looks like SF continues to live in the house post divorce.
When divorcing, it’s very likely some express provision was made for the house. If SF continued to live in it, seems likely he was sole owner post divorce.
SF remarries your mother. SF dies. Probate means he left a will. The will will state what happens to the house. It sounds from your reference to £250k that you are confusing intestacy rules with what happens when there is a will.
If your mother paid towards the house but now has nothing, there are legal claims that in principle she might be able to bring. But they are highly fact specific. She’d need to speak to a solicitor (a good one). And any claim she brought would be expensive.
Edited by Greg66 on Tuesday 11th June 23:24
Yes SF stayed in the house, my mother moved in and lived there for 5+ years with him. There was no will, and my mum and his daughter will be the ‘executors’.
The basic rules (and they quickly become complicated so do speak to a lawyer if there is any doubt about anything) if there is no will, are that his wife gets first dibs up to £250,000 and then 50% of what is left, the other 50% divided equally between his children. If his ex- has any claim (she might have) it isnt automatic and she will need to prove it.
Start off with a land registry search to establish who is the registered owner of the house, and if there are any outstanding charges (outstanding mortgages, loans or ex-wife registered interests). That will give you a good starting point. It costs about £3 and you can do it online.
But note that if there is no will then there are no executors so there might already be competing parties working in the background. Get a lawyer on board ASAP.
Start off with a land registry search to establish who is the registered owner of the house, and if there are any outstanding charges (outstanding mortgages, loans or ex-wife registered interests). That will give you a good starting point. It costs about £3 and you can do it online.
But note that if there is no will then there are no executors so there might already be competing parties working in the background. Get a lawyer on board ASAP.
SDavyy said:
Thank you.
Yes SF stayed in the house, my mother moved in and lived there for 5+ years with him. There was no will, and my mum and his daughter will be the ‘executors’.
I'm afraid if there is no will, there are no executors. They may apply to be administrators but until you know the tenure of the house you don't know if the estate is even worth the effort. Yes SF stayed in the house, my mother moved in and lived there for 5+ years with him. There was no will, and my mum and his daughter will be the ‘executors’.
SDavyy said:
Admin please delete if not suitable etc, but I understand there are some very knowledgeable people on here.
So..
My step dad has recently died, and I understand his estate is going to probate.
My mum and step dad were married for 5 years. I understand probate means that my mother gets up to £250k, and then it’s shared between his two daughters... however, his estate is not of huge value without the house. The house is the complex part.
The house is probably worth £5-600,000. The house was initially bought by my step father and his ex-wife, I am unsure whether it was joint tenancy or tennants in common. My understanding is that if bought joint tennants, then his ex wife, as the surviving owner inherits 100%, correct? My main query is to ask, upon their divorce, does it automatically become tenants in common, 50/50 ownership?
My mum has paid for the majority of bills, food shopping etc in that time (other than the mortgage), and I am worried that she will have no interest in the house.
Thanks...
First get a copy of Land Registry Title to see who the registered owners are. Costs £3 via Land Registry web site.So..
My step dad has recently died, and I understand his estate is going to probate.
My mum and step dad were married for 5 years. I understand probate means that my mother gets up to £250k, and then it’s shared between his two daughters... however, his estate is not of huge value without the house. The house is the complex part.
The house is probably worth £5-600,000. The house was initially bought by my step father and his ex-wife, I am unsure whether it was joint tenancy or tennants in common. My understanding is that if bought joint tennants, then his ex wife, as the surviving owner inherits 100%, correct? My main query is to ask, upon their divorce, does it automatically become tenants in common, 50/50 ownership?
My mum has paid for the majority of bills, food shopping etc in that time (other than the mortgage), and I am worried that she will have no interest in the house.
Thanks...
If the ex wife is still recorded you need to find out if there was a Court Order for the financial settlement of their divorce. Hopefully there is and Land Registry was just never updated.
I'm sorry but this sounds totally unfair to the stepfather's own child. Your mother paying for "his share" of "food and bills" will have been a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 50% of rent. If your SF died intestate, your mother will get the first £250k plus 50% of the remainder. If the house is worth £500k, that would be £375k of equity to her and £125k of equity to your stepsibling. When your mother dies, you get all of her equity meaning that you as a stepchild get 75% of the house value and the natural child of the man getting just 25%. For your mother being with your stepfather for just 5 years. His life's work and savings have just been taken away from his own child. Unless they were totally estranged and you were a knight in shining armour looking after him everyday, then why should you get all that?
What I feel is unfair or isn't morally right doesn't change the legal position, of course. Therefore, if your stepfather died intestate, your mother will receive the bulk of his estate so you don't need to worry that she will "get nothing".
What I feel is unfair or isn't morally right doesn't change the legal position, of course. Therefore, if your stepfather died intestate, your mother will receive the bulk of his estate so you don't need to worry that she will "get nothing".
QuickQuack said:
I'm sorry but this sounds totally unfair to the stepfather's own child. Your mother paying for "his share" of "food and bills" will have been a hell of a lot cheaper than paying 50% of rent. If your SF died intestate, your mother will get the first £250k plus 50% of the remainder. If the house is worth £500k, that would be £375k of equity to her and £125k of equity to your stepsibling. When your mother dies, you get all of her equity meaning that you as a stepchild get 75% of the house value and the natural child of the man getting just 25%. For your mother being with your stepfather for just 5 years. His life's work and savings have just been taken away from his own child. Unless they were totally estranged and you were a knight in shining armour looking after him everyday, then why should you get all that?
What I feel is unfair or isn't morally right doesn't change the legal position, of course. Therefore, if your stepfather died intestate, your mother will receive the bulk of his estate so you don't need to worry that she will "get nothing".
If he was as bothered about this as you, then he should have written a will.......What I feel is unfair or isn't morally right doesn't change the legal position, of course. Therefore, if your stepfather died intestate, your mother will receive the bulk of his estate so you don't need to worry that she will "get nothing".
Just another option here for legal assistance, try a specialist probate service like Kings Court Trust Corporation, they do fixed price fees for probate and estate administration. I'm not affiliated or work for them and never used them just know of them but might be worth a call particularly if the probate becomes contentious, and there is a good chance it might be if there is no Will and second marriages are involved. Good luck.
Mr-B said:
Just another option here for legal assistance, try a specialist probate service like Kings Court Trust Corporation
You might like to read their Google reviews first - https://www.google.com/search?q=Kings+Court+Trust+...In any case, they only appear to offer a service that involves dealing with an estate as a whole. They aren't solicitors, and it seems unlikely that they would be able to act as general advisers in the way that a solicitor could.
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