Road layout-parking ticket.
Discussion
Managed to get a parking ticket this morning from council, for parking outside my house, where I, and many other residents, have parked for years and years.
I'll pay it, annoying as it is, but what is the procedure for contesting the road layout?
Ticket is for parking across a dropped kerb, which yes fair enough I was, and yes I was opposite a crossing point, fair cop as such.
However, the drop kerb is the whole length of my car, pavement to terrace houses so not a driveway, behind my car is also dropped kerb for an entrance, which residents use as the actual drop kerb to cross the road as it is lower, there is also a keep clear line that runs half way into the crossing part.
Now my issue is this, where do they draw line? Because of the length of drop kerb is a car length and a bit based on my E31 which is long, does that mean no one can park on that length? The keep clear half way into the crossing section gives an impression it's ok to park up to that line, which is what we all do, as we lose a parking space, which there are few of already.
I'm not moaning about having the ticket or paying it, I will pay it, just don't want to be caught foul of it again nor anyone else, I don't mind if they double yellow or hatch that section off, or move the crossing to the entrance way would be ideal.
Picture attached, the drop kerb runs to beyond where the golf is parked, probably the line where the two houses meet
I'll pay it, annoying as it is, but what is the procedure for contesting the road layout?
Ticket is for parking across a dropped kerb, which yes fair enough I was, and yes I was opposite a crossing point, fair cop as such.
However, the drop kerb is the whole length of my car, pavement to terrace houses so not a driveway, behind my car is also dropped kerb for an entrance, which residents use as the actual drop kerb to cross the road as it is lower, there is also a keep clear line that runs half way into the crossing part.
Now my issue is this, where do they draw line? Because of the length of drop kerb is a car length and a bit based on my E31 which is long, does that mean no one can park on that length? The keep clear half way into the crossing section gives an impression it's ok to park up to that line, which is what we all do, as we lose a parking space, which there are few of already.
I'm not moaning about having the ticket or paying it, I will pay it, just don't want to be caught foul of it again nor anyone else, I don't mind if they double yellow or hatch that section off, or move the crossing to the entrance way would be ideal.
Picture attached, the drop kerb runs to beyond where the golf is parked, probably the line where the two houses meet
I was over the nobbled pavement bit, there's no arguing it in the eyes of the law, it's a fair but unfair cop, just one of those we've all parked there for years and years, anyone in wheel chair uses the larger on behind, that's not an excuse though, for all intents and purposes I was illegally parked, I'll pay it, it's annoying yes but I will hold my hands up to it.
The thing we are now going to have an issue with is, we all park there and it'll just be a cash cow, as everyday they could issue up to 5 PCN's there if they wanted, just as residents we need to clarify where that line is, and if it is worth pursuing the council to amend it.
Just to clarify, I was definitely parked across it, just feel something should change as to some it will seem like you can park up to that line, also annoying the wardens have walked by my car being parked there for weeks, a warning would have been nice first, but what is, is.
The thing we are now going to have an issue with is, we all park there and it'll just be a cash cow, as everyday they could issue up to 5 PCN's there if they wanted, just as residents we need to clarify where that line is, and if it is worth pursuing the council to amend it.
Just to clarify, I was definitely parked across it, just feel something should change as to some it will seem like you can park up to that line, also annoying the wardens have walked by my car being parked there for weeks, a warning would have been nice first, but what is, is.
pits said:
I was over the nobbled pavement bit, there's no arguing it in the eyes of the law, it's a fair but unfair cop, just one of those we've all parked there for years and years>
Personally I'd avoid blocking the knobbly bits. In your photo you're overhanging the 'keep clear'. It could simply be you got a new parking warden whereas the old one was more lenient.Yeah it's a fair cop at the end of the day, we all park up to that line purely as it causes parking issues, we lose a car space, it is what it is at the end of the day.
I'll be getting on to highways department anyway and see if they can address it and make it clear where it's ok to park.
I'll be getting on to highways department anyway and see if they can address it and make it clear where it's ok to park.
Pedestrian dropped kerbs help wheelchair users and people using mobility vehicles to cross the road. If you park across these crossings you will make it more difficult, and potentially dangerous, for people to cross the road.There are no requirements for there to be any markings on the road to indicate a ‘no parking’ area in front of pedestrian dropped kerb crossing.
A pedestrian dropped kerb crossing is defined as -“...the area of a pedestrian dropped kerb crossing is set by the tactile paving stones or by the portion of pavement that has been dropped to the level of the highway or by the portion of highway that has been raised the level of the pavement, but does not included the sloped areas of pavement or highway that form the transition from one level to the next."
A pedestrian dropped kerb crossing is defined as -“...the area of a pedestrian dropped kerb crossing is set by the tactile paving stones or by the portion of pavement that has been dropped to the level of the highway or by the portion of highway that has been raised the level of the pavement, but does not included the sloped areas of pavement or highway that form the transition from one level to the next."
Edited by Opel-GT on Friday 28th June 15:03
^ this - visually impaired can find the crossing with a cane and walk into a parked car -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_paving
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_paving
Edited by Opel-GT on Friday 28th June 23:31
There are two separate dropped kerbs with different functions. The "keep clear" is obviously for the vehicular entrance and encourages a bit of extra room so that exiting vehicles can see oncoming traffic. That's why it stops where is does. There's then a separate dropped kerb which is for pedestrians to cross the road and is made up of tactile paving to help visually impaired pedestrians. This doesn't require the same keep clear notice to create a visibility splay; as a driver you're supposed to know that no part of your vehicle should overlap with the tactile paving.
It creates confusion because the visibility splay area of the vehicular entrance overlaps with the tactile paving for the pedestrian dropped kerb, therefore giving the impression that it is permissible to park up to the keep clear line. However, if you separate the two areas of dropped kerb and consider them individually as if the other didn't exist, the rules become clearer. Poor layout and design, but technically correct.
It creates confusion because the visibility splay area of the vehicular entrance overlaps with the tactile paving for the pedestrian dropped kerb, therefore giving the impression that it is permissible to park up to the keep clear line. However, if you separate the two areas of dropped kerb and consider them individually as if the other didn't exist, the rules become clearer. Poor layout and design, but technically correct.
Pits
Put this on pepipoo.com in the council thread
It has been decreed at tribunals the the dropped kerb is the portion that is level with the road. The slanting kerb leading to it IS NOT a dropped Kerb
However it does look like you are done like kipper on that as it is a dropped kerb fro pedestrians and those less mobile
But put the pics up on pepipoo, the council may well have not complied with the small print ( it is called procedural impropriety)
Put this on pepipoo.com in the council thread
It has been decreed at tribunals the the dropped kerb is the portion that is level with the road. The slanting kerb leading to it IS NOT a dropped Kerb
However it does look like you are done like kipper on that as it is a dropped kerb fro pedestrians and those less mobile
But put the pics up on pepipoo, the council may well have not complied with the small print ( it is called procedural impropriety)
Edited by silverfoxcc on Saturday 29th June 16:59
pits said:
Yeah it's a fair cop at the end of the day, we all park up to that line purely as it causes parking issues, we lose a car space, it is what it is at the end of the day.
I'll be getting on to highways department anyway and see if they can address it and make it clear where it's ok to park.
Apart from the fact your car is hanging well over the keep clear line, is that actually a marked parking bay with the start of the bay in the middle of the knobbly crossing point?I'll be getting on to highways department anyway and see if they can address it and make it clear where it's ok to park.
The OP has parked blocking a crossing, got away with it for a good while, and then been caught. Surely an open and shut chase? As said, the tactile area if for partially sighted people, blocking it routinely is a tosserish thing to do.
I understand it's annoying to get a ticket, tickets are always annoying, but also life goes on!
Daniel
I understand it's annoying to get a ticket, tickets are always annoying, but also life goes on!
Daniel
Is the issue that part of the dropped kerb is redundant, as result of newer building? I have noticed my council being slow to remove redundant dropped kerbs- so perhaps pressure them to reinstate pavement, leaving just the knobbly bit, if the rest of the dropped kerb leads nowhere? Then there would be more parking space.
Of course, councils being what they are, they would probably yellow line the new bit!
Of course, councils being what they are, they would probably yellow line the new bit!
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff