Appealed PCN - NCP

[fourstardan]

Hi,

Appealed a parking charge based on me not paying.

The root of this issue was down to payment process, when I went to try and pay I assumed I put my card in, and being no ticket was issued upon arrival ANPR it would pay when I exited. I've been in many NCP's and they always give tickets. I also think I may had put a reg number in at payment.

So....after two weeks the appeal has been declined based on;

"We can confirm that our records show that several payments were made successfully via our payment machines before, during and after your parking period. However, we have found no payment for your vehicle, matching the vehicle registration number."

I endeavoured to pay myself but instructions on payment were not very clear and I fully well endeavoured to pay which is the annoying thing here. Sadly I've made an assumption about the ticketing process and it's misfired.

Should I take this further with POPLA or am I wasting my time?

Could NCP see I attempted payment within my records?

[KungFuPanda]

Surely NCP’s argument would be that everyone else who parked that day managed to use the system properly to effect payment and obtain a valid ticket.

You were just only useless baboon who couldn’t???

[Piginapoke]

fourstardan said:

Hi,

Appealed a parking charge based on me not paying.

The root of this issue was down to payment process, when I went to try and pay I assumed I put my card in, and being no ticket was issued upon arrival ANPR it would pay when I exited. I've been in many NCP's and they always give tickets. I also think I may had put a reg number in at payment.

So....after two weeks the appeal has been declined based on;

"We can confirm that our records show that several payments were made successfully via our payment machines before, during and after your parking period. However, we have found no payment for your vehicle, matching the vehicle registration number."

I endeavoured to pay myself but instructions on payment were not very clear and I fully well endeavoured to pay which is the annoying thing here. Sadly I've made an assumption about the ticketing process and it's misfired.

Should I take this further with POPLA or am I wasting my time?

Could NCP see I attempted payment within my records?

The mistake you made is thinking that NCP care what happened. As soon as you admit you were the driver, you are stuffed.

[roadsmash]

No chance. Just fking pay it.

[Roo]

Your ability to understand their system is not their problem.

How would they know you tried to pay?
Their system will show paid or not.

Can you show payment going out for the parking? If not, pay up unfortunately.

Your incompetence is no excuse.

[fourstardan]

KungFuPanda said:

Surely NCP’s argument would be that everyone else who parked that day managed to use the system properly to effect payment and obtain a valid ticket.

You were just only useless baboon who couldn’t???

Funny that David Attenborough.....someone in front did the same as me.

[fourstardan]

Piginapoke said:

The mistake you made is thinking that NCP care what happened. As soon as you admit you were the driver, you are stuffed.

Very true and I'll have to pay up here unfortunately by the looks of things....NCP are the car parking mafia.....it will be while before they get my money any more!

[anonymous-user]

OP despite what the other posters (victims) say on here, it's an invoice not a fine, and you don't have to pay it. Just write to NCP telling them clearly why you dispute their invoice and leave it at that. The likelyhood is that they'll then send you several threatening letters over the next few months before then giving up.

[fourstardan]

Andy20vt said:

OP despite what the other posters (victims) say on here, it's an invoice not a fine, and you don't have to pay it. Just write to NCP telling them clearly why you dispute their invoice and leave it at that. The likelyhood is that they'll then send you several threatening letters over the next few months before then giving up.

I've seen Can't Pay we'll take it away mate.....honestly don't think its that simple?

[roadsmash]

Andy20vt said:

OP despite what the other posters (victims) say on here, it's an invoice not a fine, and you don't have to pay it. Just write to NCP telling them clearly why you dispute their invoice and leave it at that. The likelyhood is that they'll then send you several threatening letters over the next few months before then giving up.

... or you could just do away with all the stress and pay the fine.

The OP knows he hasn’t paid, he knows it’s his fault, why go through all the stress of threatening letters and the like when you can just pay the fine?

[fourstardan]

roadsmash said:

... or you could just do away with all the stress and pay the fine.

The OP knows he hasn’t paid, he knows it’s his fault, why go through all the stress of threatening letters and the like when you can just pay the fine?

I willingly attempted to pay, but didn't clearly understand the process. And yes I don't want the aggro on this.

I will be going back to this car park to see what the signage states about how you pay just so I can settle this one at least even if I am in the wrong.

Funny thing is I was parking to collect my repaired phone from Samsung that I traded in for 120 quid lol. (two steps forward...?)

[Andy 308GTB]

fourstardan said:

Andy20vt said:

OP despite what the other posters (victims) say on here, it's an invoice not a fine, and you don't have to pay it. Just write to NCP telling them clearly why you dispute their invoice and leave it at that. The likelyhood is that they'll then send you several threatening letters over the next few months before then giving up.

I've seen Can't Pay we'll take it away mate.....honestly don't think its that simple?

It used to be that simple a few years ago. I think it's changed a bit now. http://www.pepipoo.com/ is probably the best place for advice.

I did get a ticket from NCP years ago, I ignored it. After 10 letters, starting with various notifications, increases of the 'fine' and threats from various fake debt collection agencies and threats of CCJ's they made a final offer, which I also ignored - they gave up. Although, I believe they did sell the 'debt' onto another company, as I got some odd phone calls from some crap little debt collectors which I didn't answer for a few months afterwards... This was a well documented trail on Pepipoo and it was a case of holding your nerve.

[fourstardan]

Andy 308GTB said:

It used to be that simple a few years ago. I think it's changed a bit now. http://www.pepipoo.com/ is probably the best place for advice.

I did get a ticket from NCP years ago, I ignored it. After 10 letters, starting with various notifications, increases of the 'fine' and threats from various fake debt collection agencies and threats of CCJ's they made a final offer, which I also ignored - they gave up. Although, I believe they did sell the 'debt' onto another company, as I got some odd phone calls from some crap little debt collectors which I didn't answer for a few months afterwards... This was a well documented trail on Pepipoo and it was a case of holding your nerve.

I'm really not for 60 quid going to go through this sort of process. Its the principle of this tbh I'm cheesed off with and how the same company is happy for me to fork parking costs out left right and centre.

I'll pay the fine I expect but will without doubt be going back to review the signage.

[anonymous-user]

fourstardan said:

I've seen Can't Pay we'll take it away mate.....honestly don't think its that simple?

Yes it really is that simple. It's an invoice that NCP have sent you. You happen to disagree with that invoice. Occurs in business all the time.

To get a CCJ or debt collectors round then they have to take you to court first - not impossible but very unlikely since NCP's costs will be more than they can ever get back through a court case.

Then they have to win in court. If they win they will be awarded their £100, plus a small amount of fees/costs expenses bringing the total amount payable to you to around £175-£200.

Then, to get a CCJ or Bailiffs round you have to refuse to pay NCP, and/or ignore what the court demands. That's what you see on these TV programmes.

[Andy 308GTB]

Andy20vt said:

fourstardan said:

I've seen Can't Pay we'll take it away mate.....honestly don't think its that simple?

Yes it really is that simple. It's an invoice that NCP have sent you. You happen to disagree with that invoice. Occurs in business all the time.

To get a CCJ or debt collectors round then they have to take you to court first - not impossible but very unlikely since NCP's costs will be more than they can ever get back through a court case.

Then they have to win in court. If they win they will be awarded their £100, plus a small amount of fees/costs expenses bringing the total amount payable to you to around £175-£200.

Then, to get a CCJ or Bailiffs round you have to refuse to pay NCP, and/or ignore what the court demands. That's what you see on these TV programmes.

This. The letters I received, were worded to make it look as though NCP could simply slap a CCJ on you.
But if you are going to pay the fine (and as far as I can tell you don't have a leg to stand on) this is all a bit pointless.

[anonymous-user]

Andy 308GTB said:

The letters I received, were worded to make it look as though NCP could simply slap a CCJ on you.

Exactly, scare tactics but utterly unfounded. The only way to get a CCJ or bailiffs round is to loose at court and then still refuse to pay up.

[spikyone]

Andy20vt said:

Yes it really is that simple. It's an invoice that NCP have sent you. You happen to disagree with that invoice. Occurs in business all the time.

To get a CCJ or debt collectors round then they have to take you to court first - not impossible but very unlikely since NCP's costs will be more than they can ever get back through a court case.

Then they have to win in court. If they win they will be awarded their £100, plus a small amount of fees/costs expenses bringing the total amount payable to you to around £175-£200.

Then, to get a CCJ or Bailiffs round you have to refuse to pay NCP, and/or ignore what the court demands. That's what you see on these TV programmes.

This is not in any way the same as a business invoice that OP disagrees with, and plenty of parking companies take people to court - NCP have done it on many occasions, as you could have found out from a very simple Google search of "NCP court action".

The fact that OP has named himself as driver makes it even more likely that NCP will pursue this, because they don't have to prove who was driving, or prove that they complied with POFA 2012, or prove that he didn't pay. He's apparently already admitted that he was driving and didn't pay. This would be a slam dunk for NCP in court.

OP - visit Pepipoo, post up your details there, and people that actually know about private parking will help you. My gut feeling is your contact with NCP has closed off most avenues for defending this one, but they may be able to find some screw up that NCP have made.

[anonymous-user]

spikyone said:

This is not in any way the same as a business invoice that OP disagrees with, and plenty of parking companies take people to court - NCP have done it on many occasions, as you could have found out from a very simple Google search of "NCP court action".

The fact that OP has named himself as driver makes it even more likely that NCP will pursue this, because they don't have to prove who was driving, or prove that they complied with POFA 2012, or prove that he didn't pay. He's apparently already admitted that he was driving and didn't pay. This would be a slam dunk for NCP in court.

OP - visit Pepipoo, post up your details there, and people that actually know about private parking will help you. My gut feeling is your contact with NCP has closed off most avenues for defending this one, but they may be able to find some screw up that NCP have made.

Same contract law applies - it's no different just because it's dressed up in a scary yellow ticket. Occasionally parking companies take people to court so as to be seen to not being soft but at the end of the day it costs the parking company far more to take to court that they will ever get back if they win, never mind if they loose, which they do in over 95% of cases if you believe Money SavingExpert. It's just not sustainable for them financially to take people to court willy-nilly yet the odd case here and there can help put the fear up people - people like you by the sounds of it.

[Andy 308GTB]

Andy20vt said:

spikyone said:

This is not in any way the same as a business invoice that OP disagrees with, and plenty of parking companies take people to court - NCP have done it on many occasions, as you could have found out from a very simple Google search of "NCP court action".

The fact that OP has named himself as driver makes it even more likely that NCP will pursue this, because they don't have to prove who was driving, or prove that they complied with POFA 2012, or prove that he didn't pay. He's apparently already admitted that he was driving and didn't pay. This would be a slam dunk for NCP in court.

OP - visit Pepipoo, post up your details there, and people that actually know about private parking will help you. My gut feeling is your contact with NCP has closed off most avenues for defending this one, but they may be able to find some screw up that NCP have made.

Same contract law applies - it's no different just because it's dressed up in a scary yellow ticket. Occasionally parking companies take people to court so as to be seen to not being soft but at the end of the day it costs the parking company far more to take to court that they will ever get back if they win, never mind if they loose, which they do in over 95% of cases if you believe Money SavingExpert. It's just not sustainable for them financially to take people to court willy-nilly yet the odd case here and there can help put the fear up people - people like you by the sounds of it.

NCP make easy money scaring people.

Court cases aren't profitable for them.

It makes sense to ignore them and only pay up if they decide to stump up a lot of cash - i.e. more than you are happy to pay. As an individual versus a corporation, you will be able to exit the process cheaply.

[spikyone]

Andy20vt said:

spikyone said:

This is not in any way the same as a business invoice that OP disagrees with, and plenty of parking companies take people to court - NCP have done it on many occasions, as you could have found out from a very simple Google search of "NCP court action".

The fact that OP has named himself as driver makes it even more likely that NCP will pursue this, because they don't have to prove who was driving, or prove that they complied with POFA 2012, or prove that he didn't pay. He's apparently already admitted that he was driving and didn't pay. This would be a slam dunk for NCP in court.

OP - visit Pepipoo, post up your details there, and people that actually know about private parking will help you. My gut feeling is your contact with NCP has closed off most avenues for defending this one, but they may be able to find some screw up that NCP have made.

Same contract law applies - it's no different just because it's dressed up in a scary yellow ticket. Occasionally parking companies take people to court so as to be seen to not being soft but at the end of the day it costs the parking company far more to take to court that they will ever get back if they win, never mind if they loose, which they do in over 95% of cases if you believe Money SavingExpert. It's just not sustainable for them financially to take people to court willy-nilly yet the odd case here and there can help put the fear up people - people like you by the sounds of it.

You do not know me, my friend. I am not scared of PPCs in the slightest and would usually advise fighting. (ETA: and I did suggest posting on Pepipoo in case there's something they can find to help)

However OP has made some rookie mistakes that now make him a very easy target for litigation. It's almost zero risk for NCP to take him to court.
Can you explain how he could possibly defend himself?
1. He has named himself as driver, which means he has accepted liability if there is a contractual charge.
2. He has admitted breaching a term of the contract that would lead to a charge.

MSE will tell you that 95% of PPCs lose at court (though I doubt it's that high), but OP's actions have removed two lines of defence and given him a near certainty of being in the 5% were it to get that far. And that's before you consider that this type of case always carries the possibility of a grumpy judge giving a random outcome (MSE have definitely seen a few of those).

This would not be a "willy-nilly" court case at all. To use a cliche, OP has made himself low-hanging fruit; exactly the sort of case that a parking company would pursue. Not because it makes them money directly, but because it's an easy win that they can use to add to their scare tactics. They don't mind a few costly court cases going in their favour, because they can then crow about the results to scare others.

And you're still incorrect that this is like a business contract, because it's consumer law, which is entirely different.

Edited by spikyone on Saturday 14th September 09:13