Will ‘contest’ after six years

[vincenz]

PH collective, I have a question about a will.....

-Old lady dies in 2013
-Leaves her estate to be split 50/50 to her two kids (one male, one female)
-Verbally says female child should ‘have more’ as she’s helped her during her later years but never amended will etc, this comment was namely around cash she was lent to buy a property circa 2000
-Will read upon death, siblings agree to split what is left of estate 50/50
-Today (six years later) male sibling rings female sibling asking for ‘more’ of the estate, (Half the property cash that female sibling borrowed but was never paid back)

Where does she stand?

My response was to seek legal advice properly tomorrow, which she is doing, but in the interim (and after a quick search) I can’t seem to find how these play out, anyone have any experience?

I’ll update tomorrow post legal chat.....

Thanks

[Silent1]

vincenz said:

PH collective, I have a question about a will.....

-Old lady dies in 2013
-Leaves her estate to be split 50/50 to her two kids (one male, one female)
-Verbally says female child should ‘have more’ as she’s helped her during her later years but never amended will etc, this comment was namely around cash she was lent to buy a property circa 2000
-Will read upon death, siblings agree to split what is left of estate 50/50
-Today (six years later) male sibling rings female sibling asking for ‘more’ of the estate, (Half the property cash that female sibling borrowed but was never paid back)

Where does she stand?

My response was to seek legal advice properly tomorrow, which she is doing, but in the interim (and after a quick search) I can’t seem to find how these play out, anyone have any experience?

I’ll update tomorrow post legal chat.....

Thanks

I’ve nothing useful to add apart from I should imagine that it’ll depend on how it was defined at the time I presume, loan/gift etc

[vincenz]

Thanks for your response

I believe the wording was that it should have been paid back or the 50/50 was less of any ‘gifts’

Verbally they agreed to split the remaining estate 50/50 with a nod to the deceased wishes and acknowledgment the female sibling had supported her extensively (she let her mum move in with her for the 5 years of her life) again all mute points now

[BertBert]

vincenz said:

all mute points now

They are not mute if they are being talked about now. Probably a moot point though.
Bert

[Dogwatch]

Sounds as if he has spent what he executors distributed and is casting around for a top-up.

[vincenz]

BertBert said:

They are not mute if they are being talked about now. Probably a moot point though.
Bert

[QBee]

What date in 2013, and does the standard 6 years statute of limitations apply? I don't know, just asking.

[rxe]

I was the executor of a will that had a high likelihood of being contested - thankfully it wasn’t, but I do recall that there is a limit of 6 months before probate is given, and that’s it.

So they may be 5.5 years too late, but definitely take legal advice.

[Mr Tidy]

QBee said:

What date in 2013, and does the standard 6 years statute of limitations apply? I don't know, just asking.

Yes, that was my first thought too - it may be too late! (Or that might be what prompted the action)?

Either way I hope the OP can get a good resolution!

[megaphone]

As others have commented, comes down to whether the money for the property was a loan or a gift. Was there any paperwork? Unless he can prove it was a loan I'd say he has very little chance of getting his hands on the money.

Sounds like the brother has spunked his money and is now coming back for more, do they get on? Has the sister got any spare money to give him?

Edited by megaphone on Monday 7th October 08:03

Edited by megaphone on Monday 7th October 11:50

[The Mad Monk]

vincenz said:

PH collective, I have a question about a will.....

-Old lady dies in 2013
-Leaves her estate to be split 50/50 to her two kids (one male, one female)
-Verbally says female child should ‘have more’ as she’s helped her during her later years but never amended will etc, this comment was namely around cash she was lent to buy a property circa 2000
-Will read upon death, siblings agree to split what is left of estate 50/50
-Today (six years later) male sibling rings female sibling asking for ‘more’ of the estate, (Half the property cash that female sibling borrowed but was never paid back)

Where does she stand?

My response was to seek legal advice properly tomorrow, which she is doing, but in the interim (and after a quick search) I can’t seem to find how these play out, anyone have any experience?

I’ll update tomorrow post legal chat.....

Thanks

What it says in the will.

IANAL

[Chris32345]

What she said verbally?
Didn't think what she said verbally had any legal standing it went by what was in the will
And if the will said simply 50/50 split there's nothing more to it

[Sheepshanks]

If it was a loan it should have been put back into the estate.

And, depending on the size of the estate, there might be an IHT issue.

[RichardJS]

I agree that verbal instructions or even something written down but not witnessed count as nothing. The executors are legally bound to perform exactly it says in the witnessed will. My mother had left an unwitnessed note on her will that she wanted relatively small amounts to be given to a couple of charities and a friend who was hard up. My brother and I as executors had to ignore this officially - but then made the payments out of our share of the estate, which we didnl' have to do but obviously we wanted to honour our mother's wishes.

So the will must stand. But if it was a formal loan (with paperwork), perhaps the original estimate of the estate was wrong.

Morally, as the sister had been looking after her mother for 5 years, I think she deserves the extra - as it seems the mother had wished. The cost of a nursing home for 5 years would have been well into six figures and there may have been nothing left of the estate for her to leave - so perhaps the brother should think about that and count himself lucky that he has such a nice sister!

[Ed/L152]

POI, anything that is verbal might be written or oral.

Verbal does not imply 'not written down', although I suppose as slang it is moving that way.

[brman]

RichardJS said:

So the will must stand. But if it was a formal loan (with paperwork), perhaps the original estimate of the estate was wrong.

I think this is the key point. The will is the will and just says who gets what is left of the estate.
What is left to divvy up, depends on whether there were any debts or credits due. IIRC (but I am not an expert) the executor(s) are legally liable for ensuring the estate accounts are correct and take into account things like repayment of loans.
Of course if the executors were the brother and sister and just sold everything off and split the remainder without properly accounts etc then things could be a bit messy.

(I am no expert, just done the executor bit for a couple of people)

[The Mad Monk]

Ed/L152 said:

POI, anything that is verbal might be written or oral.

Verbal does not imply 'not written down', although I suppose as slang it is moving that way.

Golly gosh!

He is right, you know?

https://tinyurl.com/y49xaq3h

[RichardJS]

Ed/L152 said:

POI, anything that is verbal might be written or oral.

Verbal does not imply 'not written down', although I suppose as slang it is moving that way.

You're correct - but 'oral' has another common meaning today, which is is perhaps why 'verbal' is used more often

[vincenz]

All
Genuinely thanks for the inputs and grammar lessons.

They did seek legal advice (female sibling is my partner’s mum) and her partner is currently the executor of his mum’s will so they had a solicitor on hand to call first thing.

Upshot is there was no paperwork for the loan, as (and I know we’ve seen it on here before) ‘she wasn’t that sort of person’ as pointed out above the mum who died acknowledged independent care would have been much dearer and quite lonely so she really felt the money wasn’t to be paid back.

So legally he doesn’t have a leg to stand on, when the will was settled that was fully agreed.
The female sibling now wants to pay him to not sour the relationship but they believe he may have got wind of the other will and wants his ‘cut’ so to speak.

I told them to offer him half of what he’s asking if they really want to pay him, but we’ll see.

I have read many cases on here of people being cunits come will time and this is another sad Example.

I’ll update if I get to the bottom of the time limit.....

Thank you once again

[meatballs]

Conservatives thinking of scrapping inheritance tax, maybe should make it 100% to spite all the worms that come out of the woodwork instead.