Murder - mens rea and actus reus.

[KungFuPanda]

The story of 39 bodies in the truck. Truck driver has been arrested for murder.

As I understand it, the truck driver picked the trailer up and shortly thereafter stopped and someone discovered the bodies.

Is it safe to presume the bodies were already in the trailer and probably dead before he picked up the trailer. So why did the Police arrest the driver for murder?

[surveyor]

KungFuPanda said:

The story of 39 bodies in the truck. Truck driver has been arrested for murder.

As I understand it, the truck driver picked the trailer up and shortly thereafter stopped and someone discovered the bodies.

Is it safe to presume the bodies were already in the trailer and probably dead before he picked up the trailer. So why did the Police arrest the driver for murder?

Maybe they suspect he's in on it. Or more likely just don't know, but with 39 bodies they need to follow the book exactly.

[bingybongy]

Been released without charge.

[anonymous-user]

He’s driving around 39 unnatural deaths. It’s to be expected the most serious potential offence would be the one he’d be arrested for.

He probably hasn’t intended to kill them / cause them GBH but you don’t want to make assumptions with such a serious matter.

A murder investigation / interview will also encompass manslaughter / assault so if a lesser charge is appropriate then it’s covered.

bingybongy said:

Been released without charge.

Where’s the source for that?

[vaud]

KungFuPanda said:

So why did the Police arrest the driver for murder?

Because he had 39 dead people in his truck.

Arrested. Not charged.

Seems reasonable.

[anonymous-user]

He got arrested as he's the prime suspect until the police do enquiries. Its to secure any potential evidence.

[anonymous-user]

KFP, are you perhaps a law student? The law is a practical tool, and some of its theoretical substrata are not of immediate relevance to day to day policing. Arguments about Latinate concepts of action and intention can come later, if and when a person is charged with an offence.

[BobSaunders]

One assumes arrested so as to be held and questioned, also to allow them to conduct enquiries etc.

Similarly to the chap who killed the intruder a couple(?) of years back in self-defence/protecting his home.

[Somewhatfoolish]

Will he have to stay the night in the cells?

Tbf not a great bother compared to sleeping in a lorry cab I'd have thought.

Poor bloke has had that picture of him with a red stripe cap on which makes him look guilty, I'd be suing the media for releasing that image when released (assuming, as is extremely probable, he is innocent)

[anonymous-user]

Arresting a person also confers on them some legal rights, as in the case of a homeowner who has tackled a burglar (most such homeowners end up being released without charge). The police would not be doing their duty if they did not when confronted with a bloke who is wittingly or unwittingly in possession of 39 dead people take him in to ask some questions. That bloke might then be rapidly eliminated as a suspect.

[Driver101]

They named him on the news earlier. I thought that was unfair if it turns out he genuinely was unaware of what was in the trailer.

[surveyor]

Driver101 said:

They named him on the news earlier. I thought that was unfair if it turns out he genuinely was unaware of what was in the trailer.

Journalists overstepping again. I could see some legislation stepping in soon to bring the them back under control. It’s not on that people who are not even charged have their lives ruined.

[vaud]

surveyor said:

Journalists overstepping again. I could see some legislation stepping in soon to bring the them back under control. It’s not on that people who are not even charged have their lives ruined.

I agree. Anonymity at least until being charged, if not until trial.

[tinnitusjosh]

vaud said:

surveyor said:

Journalists overstepping again. I could see some legislation stepping in soon to bring the them back under control. It’s not on that people who are not even charged have their lives ruined.

I agree. Anonymity at least until being charged, if not until trial.

He's been accused of driving around with 39 dead bodies in lorry - as far as I can tell that is (*checks notes*): True

[Graveworm]

KungFuPanda said:

The story of 39 bodies in the truck. Truck driver has been arrested for murder.

As I understand it, the truck driver picked the trailer up and shortly thereafter stopped and someone discovered the bodies.

Is it safe to presume the bodies were already in the trailer and probably dead before he picked up the trailer. So why did the Police arrest the driver for murder?

There has actually been a change (For the better in my view) in regards to this. Some time ago arresting for murder or other very serious offences at an early stage, was avoided. Usually other lesser offences are also made out like assaults etc. This was partly tactical and partly administrative. Tactically if someone is not arrested for murder then there might be the potential for a live victim. Administratively, there were white boards on the wall, in every custody suite these had the offence and the name of the prisoner. Murder catches the eye and brings a lot of curiosity not to mention it is also seen by other prisoners, solicitors etc.

[vaud]

tinnitusjosh said:

He's been accused of driving around with 39 dead bodies in lorry - as far as I can tell that is (*checks notes*): True

He has been arrested for murder, not for being an «en mass» undertaker.

[grumpy52]

If in the future he is cleared of wrong doing he will still be known as that mass murderer people smuggler .
He has already been condemned by the media reporting and the latest news of properties linked to the driver being searched in connection with people smuggling .

[ElectricPics]

surveyor said:

Driver101 said:

They named him on the news earlier. I thought that was unfair if it turns out he genuinely was unaware of what was in the trailer.

Journalists overstepping again. I could see some legislation stepping in soon to bring the them back under control. It’s not on that people who are not even charged have their lives ruined.

Journalists not overstepping at all but acting very much within the laws governing contempt. It's very much in the public interest that someone arrested for 39 murders can be named and although they originally got his name from 'local sources', the police must have confirmed their information.

Bring journalists back under control? Like China maybe?

[vaud]

ElectricPics said:

Journalists not overstepping at all but acting very much within the laws governing contempt. It's very much in the public interest that someone arrested for 39 murders can be named and although they originally got his name from 'local sources', the police must have confirmed their information.

Bring journalists back under control? Like China maybe?

It is in the public interest if someone is prosecuted, I agree.

But is it in the public interested that they have been arrested? Or charged (prior to the CPS decision to prosecute)?

I'm not sure what the public gain versus the individual losing. He is, after all innocent and not even charged yet.

[zygalski]

vaud said:

surveyor said:

Journalists overstepping again. I could see some legislation stepping in soon to bring the them back under control. It’s not on that people who are not even charged have their lives ruined.

I agree. Anonymity at least until being charged, if not until trial.

The counter argument is of course having named him, and images appearing on the internet, someone might come forward with info relevant to the case.




Just sayin'...