Is the IOPC worth the effort?
Discussion
I would prefer not to go into too many details, but an unfortunate situation arose recently where a senior member of our local police force caused my family some difficulties. I would add that my extended family is not, in any way, criminal (the odd fixed penalty speeding ticket notwithstanding).
The situation basically boils down to a rogue officer, not adequately managed, who thought that he was above the law and able to use his position to pursue a historic grudge, using the police resources available to him.
A word in the ear of the Chief Constable has, eventually, caused the individual to row back from the situation quite swiftly. However, in the intervening period there has been a regrettable attempt by a middle-ranking officer to support his colleague and cover up, which has rather worsened the situation.
Having chewed things over, I am not inclined to let the situation pass. However, I believe it is quite difficult to extract damages from the police or make stick an action for misfeasance in public office.
I was wondering whether a referral first to the IOPC is worthwhile, or whether they are perhaps not all that helpful. I am given to understand that their predecessor was criticised for being not quite independent. But if they are independent I cannot envisage a situation where they wouldn't find in our favour, which I imagine would assist with a claim for damages at a later date.
Constructive comment appreciated from anyone with experience or knowledge on the subject.
The situation basically boils down to a rogue officer, not adequately managed, who thought that he was above the law and able to use his position to pursue a historic grudge, using the police resources available to him.
A word in the ear of the Chief Constable has, eventually, caused the individual to row back from the situation quite swiftly. However, in the intervening period there has been a regrettable attempt by a middle-ranking officer to support his colleague and cover up, which has rather worsened the situation.
Having chewed things over, I am not inclined to let the situation pass. However, I believe it is quite difficult to extract damages from the police or make stick an action for misfeasance in public office.
I was wondering whether a referral first to the IOPC is worthwhile, or whether they are perhaps not all that helpful. I am given to understand that their predecessor was criticised for being not quite independent. But if they are independent I cannot envisage a situation where they wouldn't find in our favour, which I imagine would assist with a claim for damages at a later date.
Constructive comment appreciated from anyone with experience or knowledge on the subject.
[quote=So]I would prefer not to go into too many details, but an unfortunate situation arose recently where a senior member of our local police force caused my family some difficulties. I would add that my extended family is not, in any way, criminal (the odd fixed penalty speeding ticket notwithstanding).
The situation basically boils down to a rogue officer, not adequately managed, who thought that he was above the law and able to use his position to pursue a historic grudge, using the police resources available to him.
A word in the ear of the Chief Constable has, eventually, caused the individual to row back from the situation quite swiftly. However, in the intervening period there has been a regrettable attempt by a middle-ranking officer to support his colleague and cover up, which has rather worsened the situation.
Having chewed things over, I am not inclined to let the situation pass. However, I believe it is quite difficult to extract damages from the police or make stick an action for misfeasance in public office.
I was wondering whether a referral first to the IOPC is worthwhile, or whether they are perhaps not all that helpful. I am given to understand that their predecessor was criticised for being not quite independent. But if they are independent I cannot envisage a situation where they wouldn't find in our favour, which I imagine would assist with a claim for damages at a later date.
Constructive comment appreciated from anyone with experience or knowledge on the subject.
sorry to hear of your wows.
If its not going to cost you anything bar a little bit of your time then i would refer it. if for nothing else just to cause a bit of a scene, after all thats what the officer has tried to do.
I once dated a girl who her dad was a policeman, he did a police check on me and then dropped a few hints now and again over the dinner table.
Knob.
The situation basically boils down to a rogue officer, not adequately managed, who thought that he was above the law and able to use his position to pursue a historic grudge, using the police resources available to him.
A word in the ear of the Chief Constable has, eventually, caused the individual to row back from the situation quite swiftly. However, in the intervening period there has been a regrettable attempt by a middle-ranking officer to support his colleague and cover up, which has rather worsened the situation.
Having chewed things over, I am not inclined to let the situation pass. However, I believe it is quite difficult to extract damages from the police or make stick an action for misfeasance in public office.
I was wondering whether a referral first to the IOPC is worthwhile, or whether they are perhaps not all that helpful. I am given to understand that their predecessor was criticised for being not quite independent. But if they are independent I cannot envisage a situation where they wouldn't find in our favour, which I imagine would assist with a claim for damages at a later date.
Constructive comment appreciated from anyone with experience or knowledge on the subject.
sorry to hear of your wows.
If its not going to cost you anything bar a little bit of your time then i would refer it. if for nothing else just to cause a bit of a scene, after all thats what the officer has tried to do.
I once dated a girl who her dad was a policeman, he did a police check on me and then dropped a few hints now and again over the dinner table.
Knob.
Whilst it’s difficult to advise given the understandable lack of detail, generally i’d suggest your best bet is to lodge a complaint formally, in writing, through the relevant force’s Professional Standards Department (PSD). If you’re so inclined you could copy in your MP and/or the Chief Constable.
In the majority of cases the IOPC will refer any complaints to the originating force to investigate anyway... and vice versa PSD will refer up to IOPC anything they need to know about.
In the majority of cases the IOPC will refer any complaints to the originating force to investigate anyway... and vice versa PSD will refer up to IOPC anything they need to know about.
SteveScooby said:
Whilst it’s difficult to advise given the understandable lack of detail, generally i’d suggest your best bet is to lodge a complaint formally, in writing, through the relevant force’s Professional Standards Department (PSD). If you’re so inclined you could copy in your MP and/or the Chief Constable.
In the majority of cases the IOPC will refer any complaints to the originating force to investigate anyway... and vice versa PSD will refer up to IOPC anything they need to know about.
Good to know, thank you.In the majority of cases the IOPC will refer any complaints to the originating force to investigate anyway... and vice versa PSD will refer up to IOPC anything they need to know about.
Yes, our MP has been quite helpful and I think responsible for someone more senior becoming involved. Initially we got a middle-ranking chap claiming to be dealing with it, but it became quite clear that he either wasn't or couldn't for whatever reason.
It would be the Professional Standards Department that would deal with the compliant. The IOPC only deal with very serious complaints.
Make a complaint to the depertment of the force involved and someone will come and interview you. You then get the matter investigated and will receive a written report of the outcome
If they find in your favour you can claim compo without going to court. The police now pay out without litigation as it is to expensive and time consuming..
Make a complaint to the depertment of the force involved and someone will come and interview you. You then get the matter investigated and will receive a written report of the outcome
If they find in your favour you can claim compo without going to court. The police now pay out without litigation as it is to expensive and time consuming..
kestral said:
It would be the Professional Standards Department that would deal with the compliant. The IOPC only deal with very serious complaints.
Make a complaint to the depertment of the force involved and someone will come and interview you. You then get the matter investigated and will receive a written report of the outcome
If they find in your favour you can claim compo without going to court. The police now pay out without litigation as it is to expensive and time consuming..
I presume there would be no issue referring to the IOPC as well as the PSD. They can always knock it back. But to us it does seem quite serious and as the basis of the problem is malicious, I would hope they would find it of interest.Make a complaint to the depertment of the force involved and someone will come and interview you. You then get the matter investigated and will receive a written report of the outcome
If they find in your favour you can claim compo without going to court. The police now pay out without litigation as it is to expensive and time consuming..
I don't know whether they would pay out without litigation the sort of damages we will be seeking.
One really quite unpleasant aspect is that the sum of damages is steadily rising. We got back some property last week, which had particular sentimental value, which has been quite badly damaged. It would appear, deliberately. It had been in the control of the officer who is the subject of the complaint, so it is not difficult to conclude how the damage occurred. Happily we have detailed photos from before seizure.
My personal view would be that if this guy has a real hard on for your family he's not going to stop. He might lie low for a while after being spoken to by a senior officer but that'll only last as long as that officer is in his current role. He could be off to a different force tomorrow with a promotion. I'd make the complaint, even if nothing comes of it as it stands it's then a matter of record, all sounds informal up until now. Any further misbehaviour from him afterwards is either retribution for you reporting him or a continuation of what you reported, he'd be daft to do anything but let it drop.
My ex-ex-ex-GF's brother's wife WAS a copper. She was asked to consider a different career. Apparently somebody noticed she'd run a few too many checks on people, registrations etc that weren't connected to any investigations. Ex boyfriends, her husband's family, possibly myself, people she bumped into randomly. If he's been looking into your family then the evidence is there and he'll have to justify why.
My ex-ex-ex-GF's brother's wife WAS a copper. She was asked to consider a different career. Apparently somebody noticed she'd run a few too many checks on people, registrations etc that weren't connected to any investigations. Ex boyfriends, her husband's family, possibly myself, people she bumped into randomly. If he's been looking into your family then the evidence is there and he'll have to justify why.
La Liga said:
I somewhat doubt the CC is going to get involved with whether property has been booked in or not... OP also didn’t say he had spoken to the CC.
OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
Wrongly assumed the OP saying a word in the ear of the chief con meant they had spoken to the chief con.
OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
Wrongly assumed the OP saying a word in the ear of the chief con meant they had spoken to the chief con.
La Liga said:
I somewhat doubt the CC is going to get involved with whether property has been booked in or not... OP also didn’t say he had spoken to the CC.
OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
I will choose one route. In light of the advice on this thread the IOPC probably. I am pleased to hear that it is a viable option.OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
I will Cc it into the Chief and professional standards, unless there is a reason why not.
Fatball said:
La Liga said:
I somewhat doubt the CC is going to get involved with whether property has been booked in or not... OP also didn’t say he had spoken to the CC.
OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
Wrongly assumed the OP saying a word in the ear of the chief con meant they had spoken to the chief con.
OP, don’t duplicate a complaint. Either go one route or the other in terms of the IOPC / PSD. There’s no more advice that can be given.
Wrongly assumed the OP saying a word in the ear of the chief con meant they had spoken to the chief con.
On the odd occasion in the past that I've needed to moan at the police there has seemed to be two sorts of senior officers. The no nonsense "get it sorted" type and the old school "brush it under the carpet" sort. Unfortunately in the first instance it went to the latter sort. However, when things started going awry I wrote again to the Chief copying in a CI who was also involved and suddenly things started moving.
I had the pleasure(!) of seeing the problematic officer the day before yesterday. He seemed quite cowed and obsequious. Though I read that as him keeping his head down, rather than anything else.
Generally speaking, the IOPC will normally want any complaint to be dealt with by PSD first, however if that's failed the IOPC will get involved. By all means contact them and explain the situation, see what they say. Worst they can do is refer it back to the force PSD. Best they can do is take the complaint up.
An update on this.
The police wrote to us yesterday admitting liability for damage of property and offered to settle. Perhaps unsurprisingly the offer is low and will need to be increased.
I also received a phone call regarding the complaint we made to Professional Standards.
The call was from a junior officer who clearly had no understanding of the law, nor interest in familiarising himself with it. He said that “lessons will be learned and we will do things differently in the future, but beyond that no one will be sanctioned”.
Apparently we can appeal the findings but only to the Force. He went on to say that there is no point in referring it to the independent complaints body because they will only refer it back to the Force.
The tone coming from the police is very much, “we are the police, so we can do what we want without consequence”.
The police wrote to us yesterday admitting liability for damage of property and offered to settle. Perhaps unsurprisingly the offer is low and will need to be increased.
I also received a phone call regarding the complaint we made to Professional Standards.
The call was from a junior officer who clearly had no understanding of the law, nor interest in familiarising himself with it. He said that “lessons will be learned and we will do things differently in the future, but beyond that no one will be sanctioned”.
Apparently we can appeal the findings but only to the Force. He went on to say that there is no point in referring it to the independent complaints body because they will only refer it back to the Force.
The tone coming from the police is very much, “we are the police, so we can do what we want without consequence”.
Greendubber said:
What actually happened?
I cannot be specific because it would ID the officer and there are officers from that force on this site.I am still surprised by the call I had to be honest. It can be paraphrased, "I know you've taken legal advice and know the law. Personally I haven't so you know more than me. What I DO know is, though, that we've done nothing wrong. In respect of the second officer covering for the first, we would expect an officer to do that over and above upholding the law".
We knew that we may not get very far with a complaint to the force, but advice on here suggested that complaint to force > IOPC > Action was the way to go and it makes perfect sense. It still doesn't make hearing that sort of thing any more palatable however.
So said:
I am still surprised by the call I had to be honest. It can be paraphrased, "I know you've taken legal advice and know the law. Personally I haven't so you know more than me. What I DO know is, though, that we've done nothing wrong. In respect of the second officer covering for the first, we would expect an officer to do that over and above upholding the law".
I very much doubt that it could be accurately paraphrased like that but evidently, your own bias prevents you from giving up a proper statement of the facts. Next week on 'Fantasy Island'...
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