Investment Scam
Discussion
I've just found out that an elderly relative has "invested" quite a bit of money with what I am quite sure is a scam. Mostly done online with a couple of phone calls and emails quite convincingly appearing to be from a well known brokerage, a London phone number and money transferred to UK accounts. The domains the email actually came from were registered to look legitimate and they claimed to be selling bonds in well known companies. They even bore the signatures of actual employees of the cloned company (so LinkedIn says). Apparently the FCA are aware of this "clone" operation and it's listed on their website as one to avoid.
I have just been on the phone to her bank and the bank who received the money, and will report it to Action Fraud as soon as possible.
Is there anything else we should do at this stage? And what if any steps can be taken to give her some chance of recovering any money? And of course protecting others from this particularly nasty form of theft.
I know to many people (myself included) this is just downright stupid and when I have read of this sort of thing happening my sympathy has been tempered by wondering how anyone can be so naïve. They can. This is an elderly lady who never had much to invest for most of her life. She isn't savvy with financial products and struggles to use her email anyway, let alone check the authenticity of a sender's domain name. This wasn't a £5,000 release fee for the President of Nigeria's $50m Swiss bank account.
She trusted the "nice people" who she spoke to and lost a significant amount of money.
I have not named the companies involved or cloned or the sum of money involved as I don't think it would help at this stage, however if this is relevant then I can.
Thanks in advance for any help. And for God's sake keep an eye on elderly relatives.
I have just been on the phone to her bank and the bank who received the money, and will report it to Action Fraud as soon as possible.
Is there anything else we should do at this stage? And what if any steps can be taken to give her some chance of recovering any money? And of course protecting others from this particularly nasty form of theft.
I know to many people (myself included) this is just downright stupid and when I have read of this sort of thing happening my sympathy has been tempered by wondering how anyone can be so naïve. They can. This is an elderly lady who never had much to invest for most of her life. She isn't savvy with financial products and struggles to use her email anyway, let alone check the authenticity of a sender's domain name. This wasn't a £5,000 release fee for the President of Nigeria's $50m Swiss bank account.
She trusted the "nice people" who she spoke to and lost a significant amount of money.
I have not named the companies involved or cloned or the sum of money involved as I don't think it would help at this stage, however if this is relevant then I can.
Thanks in advance for any help. And for God's sake keep an eye on elderly relatives.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Burwood said:
I hope you get it sorted. Have you taken steps to curtail their email/internet use?
That's a good point, thanks. What steps can be taken? They don't go in for masses of online shopping or anything. I would change her email address and advise a discrete contact list of that new address. It will cut out spam or at least slow it down. I would tell her to not register for anything online. Your approach would be tailored for exactly how much 'internet' she uses. Show her examples online(news articles) of the incidence of scammers.
It's a very frustrating situation. I had a family member (few years ago) in his 60s, not losing his mind tell me to look at a share buying software offer that a cold caller sent him. Guaranteed 200% annual returns. Scam! But he argued the past performance looked great. It didn't dawn on him that anyone can create a list of Buys/Sells. It was £20K for the secret sauce software. And he was seriously thinking about wiring them the money. Even when i asked him why a guaranteed money making software is being peddled. Its impossible and he is not to ever speak to anyone calling him about investments.
Edited by Burwood on Sunday 1st December 12:13
Good points, thanks for that.
She's normally pretty savvy. Or at least pretty savvy for 20 years ago about checking bank statements and not taking cold calls.
I will try to keep a closer eye on things. I don't think she'll be doing any more investing in the near future but good points about email etc.
She's normally pretty savvy. Or at least pretty savvy for 20 years ago about checking bank statements and not taking cold calls.
I will try to keep a closer eye on things. I don't think she'll be doing any more investing in the near future but good points about email etc.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Her bank and the bank she sent the money to are registered, and both major high street banks.
The company they claimed to be are a real, major bank.
Isn't there an issue here if the receiving bank operated an account for the sham company without checking it properly?The company they claimed to be are a real, major bank.
Yours is unlikley to be the first and only complaint.
Not sure if it helps but have a listen to this podcast, set your expectations (low) and don’t waste too much time.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/file-on-4/id...
You really have very little chance of seeing the money again from what I can tell as action fraud just aren’t up to the job. Under resourced.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/file-on-4/id...
You really have very little chance of seeing the money again from what I can tell as action fraud just aren’t up to the job. Under resourced.
Sheepshanks said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Her bank and the bank she sent the money to are registered, and both major high street banks.
The company they claimed to be are a real, major bank.
Isn't there an issue here if the receiving bank operated an account for the sham company without checking it properly?The company they claimed to be are a real, major bank.
Yours is unlikley to be the first and only complaint.
You have zero chance of putting the bank on the hook unless you can prove the bank was complicit in the fraud.
sugerbear said:
You have zero chance of putting the bank on the hook unless you can prove the bank was complicit in the fraud.
Not sure that's true any more. Some banks have agreed to some sort of code of practice or something to refund fraud victims. Not sure if it applies in this case but worth checking. See here....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48385426
mouseymousey said:
Not sure that's true any more. Some banks have agreed to some sort of code of practice or something to refund fraud victims. Not sure if it applies in this case but worth checking.
See here....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48385426
Good find. Fortunately her bank is a member of this so it is an avenue to pursue. It seems to place some onus on the customer to verify who they're dealing with, which is not unreasonable.See here....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48385426
No idea how they assess this but from what I have seen it is a fairly slick operation and quite believable looking emails.
mouseymousey said:
sugerbear said:
You have zero chance of putting the bank on the hook unless you can prove the bank was complicit in the fraud.
Not sure that's true any more. Some banks have agreed to some sort of code of practice or something to refund fraud victims. Not sure if it applies in this case but worth checking. See here....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48385426
It would be interesting to compare the legit company vs the dodgy one.
sugerbear said:
Depends on the bank, not all have signed up. I would be assuming the money is lost as the devil will be in the detail. I think the bank may argue that in this case she was grossly negligent for not checking the company she was sending to before she sent the money.
It would be interesting to compare the legit company vs the dodgy one.
Both her bank and the receiving bank are part of the scheme. I will be interested to see how that pans out.It would be interesting to compare the legit company vs the dodgy one.
It's certainly not what I would describe as "grossly negligent" but I don't make or interpret the rules.
sugerbear said:
Banks don’t check the day to day operation of a business. Anyone can setup a limited company and as long as the directors don’t have any disqualifications then all is good. It’s also possible to set up a sole trader account without any checks on the business itself.
You'll probably turn out to be an expert but I'm not sure that's true. We have a fairly straightforward business and are forever being asked to provide identity details, information about the business etc etc.I'd have thought these days a bank would be pretty careful about a customer who was involved in a business in the financial sector.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Sunday 1st December 20:30
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