Angry roundabout clash - what can I learn!?

[Ken Figenus]

Its a bit of a mess of a roundabout is Gabalfa in Cardiff - very large and very busy. Many of milder manner really do take detours to avoid it! But II had quite a clash when trying to exit the roundabout today - ground to a halt in a shouting match. Not good. So clearly I have my POV but I really should manage it better if I think I'm a bit of a driver and all that!



I'm on the inside lane in green and just after passing the exit at 4 o clock i indicate left ready for my exit at 7 o clock - i'm good like that as I hate people who cant be arsed to signal on roundabouts!

At this point too a transit enters from the 4 o clock position crossing to the middle lane. He accelerates hard and is alongside me now, on my left. I'm still indicating left and thought he'd back off to give me space to exit - I was on the roundabout first and ahead of him initially, right? But he doesn't ; he stays alongside and now starts indicating right. So I have to grind to a halt and he then undertakes me', gets a blast of the horn, and after clearing me stops after a few metres and we have words.

I know I could have handled it better, and I think the lane marks permit all this, but I rarely if, ever have to stop on a roundabout to exit and there just wasn't that much room to speed up (rarely an issue!) or slow down to create space. Thoughts?

>edit to correct entry/exit terms<

Edited by Ken Figenus on Friday 13th December 00:35

[MitchT]

I'd have got into the best lane for my exit sooner, though it sounds like they were a generally angry twunt who sussed what you were trying to achieve and set out to make it as difficult as possible. Typical van/Audi/SUV (delete as appropriate) wker.

[akirk]

Could you have moved to the left lane after the previous exit - why were you still in the right lane?

As per my recent post on a roundabout thread in the Advanced Driving section - the Highway Code is clear in at least three places that you must watch out for other road users making unexpected moves...

ie assume everyone else can’t drive but don’t confirm their thoughts if they think the same about you!

[MissChief]

While the posters above do make salient points, If the van driver wasn't taking either of the first two exits, he should not have been in the left lane entering the roundabout, nor should he have stayed in the left lane on the roundabout going past those two exits. As much as I hate them it's one reason the Spiral design lane markings work well.

The road markings on his Entry point seem to suggest the left lane is for those turning immediately left a the first exit too.

Edited by MissChief on Thursday 12th December 23:02

[Ken Figenus]

MitchT said:

I'd have got into the best lane for my exit sooner, though it sounds like they were a generally angry twunt who sussed what you were trying to achieve and set out to make it as difficult as possible. Typical van/Audi/SUV (delete as appropriate) wker.

Fair point Mitch but you then risk clashing with cars taking the 6 o clock roundabout entry who are quickly turning left for their first dedicated exit in lane 1 of that 7 o clock exit. I used to find that taking lane 2 on that 7 o clock exit was easier. I used the past tense there mind

Edited by Ken Figenus on Thursday 12th December 23:01

[vonhosen]

A guide for roundabouts.

1. Don't get along side others.
2. Get in the lane for a safe exit in good time.
3. If you can't do 1 & 2 be prepared to go around & get your exit next time.

[MitchT]

Ken Figenus said:

Fair point Mitch but you then risk clashing with cars exiting the 6 o clock roundabout entry who are quickly turning left for their first dedicated exit in lane 1 of that 7 o clock exit. I used to find that taking lane 2 on that 7 o clock exit was easier. I used the past tense there mind

Perfectly valid observation. In my experience though, it's easier to manage things from the left lane than the be in the right and have to move across, especially as the world is full of people who think you're jumping the queue and go out of their way to block you when you want to move over. I'd have been in the left of the two available lanes prior to entering the roundabout, but that's just me. I've become quite cautious over the years because I know what someone will try to do if I'm not.

[Pica-Pica]

You should have moved left earlier, before 4 o clock. In his mind, you were in the lane he was targeting, but then indicated left. Those entering at 4 o clock should be seeing you in their ‘entry’ lane. Otherwise you are giving them a lane to enter into, with this result that you come into conflict when crossing.

[Chrisgr31]

akirk said:

Could you have moved to the left lane after the previous exit - why were you still in the right lane?

There is no reason for him not to be. If you look at the roundabout on google and street view https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5042558,-3.19837... you will see there are dotted white lines across the roundabout showing that both lanes off the roundabout can exit on to the road the OP was trying to go down.

The view also shows that after the exit the OP took the inside lane the transit was on ends and there are arrows directing the users of it in to the lane the OP was in. There is also a 20mph speed limit on the roundabout.

My conclusion is that the transit driver was an asshole and the OP should have realised and just ignored him and dropped back behind him

[Ken Figenus]

Pica-Pica said:

You should have moved left earlier, before 4 o clock. In his mind, you were in the lane he was targeting, but then indicated left. Those entering at 4 o clock should be seeing you in their ‘entry’ lane. Otherwise you are giving them a lane to enter into, with this result that you come into conflict when crossing.

I was already indicating left as he entered, but this is a good general point to close an opportunity for conflict of space down before it happens. Cheers.

[Ken Figenus]

Chrisgr31 said:

There is no reason for him not to be. If you look at the roundabout on google and street view https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5042558,-3.19837... you will see there are dotted white lines across the roundabout showing that both lanes off the roundabout can exit on to the road the OP was trying to go down.

The view also shows that after the exit the OP took the inside lane the transit was on ends and there are arrows directing the users of it in to the lane the OP was in. There is also a 20mph speed limit on the roundabout.

My conclusion is that the transit driver was an asshole and the OP should have realised and just ignored him and dropped back behind him

This 1 roundabout has a mix of 1 lane (just after my exit as you note) 2 lanes after the next exit, and then 3 lanes! It is a right hotpotch!

[Pica-Pica]

Ken Figenus said:

Pica-Pica said:

You should have moved left earlier, before 4 o clock. In his mind, you were in the lane he was targeting, but then indicated left. Those entering at 4 o clock should be seeing you in their ‘entry’ lane. Otherwise you are giving them a lane to enter into, with this result that you come into conflict when crossing.

I was already indicating left as he entered, but this is a good general point to close an opportunity for conflict of space down before it happens. Cheers.

OK, but that is not what you wrote..”I'm on the inside lane in green and just after passing the exit at 4 o clock i indicate left ready for my exit at 7 o clock “...Unless I misunderstand you. If you indicated AT 4 o clock, he could have missed that single flash (which is the most he would have seen - he may have been looking ahead into his lane ahead.

[Lemming Train]

MissChief said:

While the posters above do make salient points, If the van driver wasn't taking either of the first two exits, he should not have been in the left lane entering the roundabout, nor should he have stayed in the left lane on the roundabout going past those two exits. As much as I hate them it's one reason the Spiral design lane markings work well.

The road markings on his Entry point seem to suggest the left lane is for those turning immediately left a the first exit too.

Edited by MissChief on Thursday 12th December 23:02

The road markings suggest no such thing . The van was in the correct lane to go straight on, as the road markings clearly illustrate on the approach to the junction and on the roundabout itself.

For the question of who was in the wrong, neither party was in terms of their lane usage, but the van should have yield (yielded?) to the OP until he'd gone past and made his exit.

[Pica-Pica]

Lemming Train said:

The road markings suggest no such thing . The van was in the correct lane to go straight on, as the road markings clearly illustrate on the approach to the junction and on the roundabout itself.

For the question of who was in the wrong, neither party was in terms of their lane usage, but the van should have yield (yielded?) to the OP until he'd gone past and made his exit.

But if OP is in inner (RH) lane, and van enters into outer (LH) lane, why and how should the van ‘yield’?

[Lemming Train]

Pica-Pica said:

But if OP is in inner (RH) lane, and van enters into outer (LH) lane, why and how should the van ‘yield’?

Not sure if serious?

Try reading up on how roundabouts work.

[IJWS15]

It takes 2 aholes for things like this to happen.

If you'd slowed earlier you could have crossed behind him, or you could have gone around again - The horn didn't solve anything, is it worth getting wound up about?

Last time I was involved in an accident (10 years ago) my father's response to my view that there was nothing I could have done to avoid it was to suggest I think again.

[SamR380]

Lemming Train said:

Not sure if serious?

Try reading up on how roundabouts work.

A roundabout like that is like any two-lane carriageway, it just happens to be in a circular shape. If you wanted to move from the right to the left lane on a straight two-lane carriageway would you expect the vehichle in the left lane to move out of your way?

[Lemming Train]

Seems that some people need to refresh themselves wtih Highway Code rule 185(i).

[xx99xx]

With awareness of a vehicle to my left, which is in the lane I want to be in, I'd have slowed down to move into that lane behind the adjacent vehicle. Being on the roundabout first is irrelevant. Trying to overtake on a roundabout just before your exit usually won't end well.

Van is not completely blameless and 9 times out of 10, a beep doesn't result in a shouting match in the middle of a roundabout. So whilst you were unlucky in this instance, it could've been avoided. Being right doesn't really matter if you end up with a mangled car or face.

[NickGRhodes]

Do rules about undertaking apply on roundabouts ?