Developer illegally tapped into our drain....
Discussion
All,
A question for the legally minded folks here...
Several years ago, a developer bought the property next to my patents and developed some flats. While he was there, he mentioned to my parents that the brick garden wall was in need of a little repair, and that seeing as he had men and materials onsite, he would do it... He knocked down a section half down the garden and then rebuilt it. What a nice chap!
The drain in my parent's property runs down the garden next to the wall (you can see where this is headed...
). They have had some drainage issues, so we dug up around the manhole, which by coincidence, is next to the repaired section of garden wall only to find that he has plumed his drain pipe into ours....There is no easement between the properties and he did not have any permission.
We sent a recorded delivery letter o him, but he refused to accept it. I am minded to simply disconnect his drain from ours. Can I just do this? I know he is in the wrong, but I do not want to inadvertently land my parents in any hot water e.g. over environmental contamination.
Thanks in advance,
Rog
A question for the legally minded folks here...
Several years ago, a developer bought the property next to my patents and developed some flats. While he was there, he mentioned to my parents that the brick garden wall was in need of a little repair, and that seeing as he had men and materials onsite, he would do it... He knocked down a section half down the garden and then rebuilt it. What a nice chap!
The drain in my parent's property runs down the garden next to the wall (you can see where this is headed...
). They have had some drainage issues, so we dug up around the manhole, which by coincidence, is next to the repaired section of garden wall only to find that he has plumed his drain pipe into ours....There is no easement between the properties and he did not have any permission. We sent a recorded delivery letter o him, but he refused to accept it. I am minded to simply disconnect his drain from ours. Can I just do this? I know he is in the wrong, but I do not want to inadvertently land my parents in any hot water e.g. over environmental contamination.
Thanks in advance,
Rog
I'd have thought that his connection to your drain was on your property. So I would have thought you could disconnect it on your side and block it off.
I would also have thought that the onus on him is to provide plans for the drainage, and would have at least some sort of paper trail of getting permission from your parents in order to do that work.
Only thing I'd be wary of if disconnecting the pipe on your side and not blocking it up.
I would also have thought that the onus on him is to provide plans for the drainage, and would have at least some sort of paper trail of getting permission from your parents in order to do that work.
Only thing I'd be wary of if disconnecting the pipe on your side and not blocking it up.
Look up the planning application docs on your council's website. It should mention somewhere where the drainage was supposed to go. Not that the council will help you after this length of time but it may be useful info for a civil case.
Is the drain for rainwater or waste? If it's a surface water drain and neighbour has connected waste to it, there may be enforcement action water company or environment agency can take.
Can you be sure the connection was made when the development went in and wasn't already there?
Is the drain for rainwater or waste? If it's a surface water drain and neighbour has connected waste to it, there may be enforcement action water company or environment agency can take.
Can you be sure the connection was made when the development went in and wasn't already there?
Thanks for the many responses. In response to the points made:
1. The original drain is an old clay pipe. It new plastic pipe coming in from next door is very obvious. Besides, my Dad knows it was not there before.
2. Thames Water confirmed these pipes are private, will have nothing more to do with it.
3. I cannot see any drainage plans on the planning portal, but will call Building Control tomorrow.
Thanks again.
1. The original drain is an old clay pipe. It new plastic pipe coming in from next door is very obvious. Besides, my Dad knows it was not there before.
2. Thames Water confirmed these pipes are private, will have nothing more to do with it.
3. I cannot see any drainage plans on the planning portal, but will call Building Control tomorrow.
Thanks again.
132 said:
2. Thames Water confirmed these pipes are private, will have nothing more to do with it.
Like a lot of things, I'm sure there are gotchas - perhaps if it was done since 2011 that might be an issue, but:https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help-and-advice/drai...
I can well imagine their first response is always "nothing to do with us guv".
If things check out as you think, and developer continues to ignore, then I would suggest checking on who the freeholder is at Land Registry to make sure he has not flogged it. And also putting a notice up for the residents advising that the drain is unauthorised and will be capped, and that they may want to contact the Landlord to discuss what they are gong to do to resolve the situation.
Hopefully you didn't create too much of a record of your call to Thames water. Fact is what were private sewers are unmapped, and yet all the utilities now have responsibility for those parts which are shared between two properties, including the manholes at the junction. (I know this because I have just had our garden manhole repaired by United Utilities at their expense - its where our sewer connects to the shared sewer)
I would re-approach Thames water and just say you have a shared sewer in your garden and there is an issue at the junction where your lateral sewer joins the neighbours at the shared manholes - no history, dates etc. One of two things can then happen:-
1) they agree its a shared sewer for which they are responsible and repair it - if it was connected before 2011 when they took over the responsibilities there is 100% no doubt this is the situation
2) they say its an unauthorised connection since 2011 which will give you the ammo to go after the developer.
I don't think they can just wash their hands of a shared sewer, get them to put any decision in writing.
I would re-approach Thames water and just say you have a shared sewer in your garden and there is an issue at the junction where your lateral sewer joins the neighbours at the shared manholes - no history, dates etc. One of two things can then happen:-
1) they agree its a shared sewer for which they are responsible and repair it - if it was connected before 2011 when they took over the responsibilities there is 100% no doubt this is the situation
2) they say its an unauthorised connection since 2011 which will give you the ammo to go after the developer.
I don't think they can just wash their hands of a shared sewer, get them to put any decision in writing.
mr rusty said:
2) they say its an unauthorised connection since 2011 which will give you the ammo to go after the developer.
I don't know how these things work but you'd think they'd be pretty miffed that someone connected (ultimately) to their sewer without authorisation / approval.On the other hand, they've cheerfully collected rates from the residents of the flats now using it.
This is a good opportunity to make a few bob. You should say to the developer that you intend to disconnect the drain but that (without prejudice) you might be willing to consider offering him a formal easement in return for a suitable consideration. The sum payable would be based on the cost of him having to construct a new drain if you blocked his access.
Of course, before confirming the offer you'd have to check first to see whether or not your existing drain is legally adequate to take the developer's drainage as well. However, as part of any deal you could stipulate that he would have to pay for any such investigation work, whether or not the outcome was favourable.
You're in a strong negotiating position, but assuming you aren't personally experienced in such matters you should employ a solicitor and/or surveyor, again at the developer's expense, to give you proper advice.
Of course, before confirming the offer you'd have to check first to see whether or not your existing drain is legally adequate to take the developer's drainage as well. However, as part of any deal you could stipulate that he would have to pay for any such investigation work, whether or not the outcome was favourable.
You're in a strong negotiating position, but assuming you aren't personally experienced in such matters you should employ a solicitor and/or surveyor, again at the developer's expense, to give you proper advice.
We have recently built 2 houses at the bottom of my garden, and foul drainage was a huge problem for the newbuilds - either £35k plus to close a road, that carried a bus route and dig the entire road to get to the sewer 5 metres below the surface on the other side, or dig a trench 2 metres deep all the way up the garden to connect to a trunk sewer a few feet from our back door, saving tens of thousands.
All manner of hoops to jump through, planning, several inspections by the water board before we could backfill, so it definitely looks like this developer has done it on the sly and deserves every bit of crap coming to him...
All manner of hoops to jump through, planning, several inspections by the water board before we could backfill, so it definitely looks like this developer has done it on the sly and deserves every bit of crap coming to him...
Pun intended - my point is the water board make it such a drawn out process, with the hole being open for several days, longer in our case while they found someone to do the staged inspections.
If it had been legit, Dad could not have failed to notice what was being done and could have questioned it. The fact of the “wall repair” being done as a favour and quickly speaks for itself - we did a favour for free for the neighbour bordering the newbuilds, we built them a new front fence as they liked the fencing we did so much - probably did us more of a favour as it brightened up the whole frontage
If it had been legit, Dad could not have failed to notice what was being done and could have questioned it. The fact of the “wall repair” being done as a favour and quickly speaks for itself - we did a favour for free for the neighbour bordering the newbuilds, we built them a new front fence as they liked the fencing we did so much - probably did us more of a favour as it brightened up the whole frontage
kowalski655 said:
I'm no builder so have no real idea (never stopped me before ) but if capped off, could the pressure build up and split the plastic pipe, leaving s
t in next doors garden and overflowing into your parents?
The pipe wouldn't split no but it would come out somewhere further back from where it came.) but if capped off, could the pressure build up and split the plastic pipe, leaving st in next doors garden and overflowing into your parents?Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff