Do I have a right to a refund - Season Ticket

[BrettMRC]

I am in the midst of a complaint & ongoing correspondance with SWR regarding the strikes in December.

My primary points are that in December they issued a new timetable as a result of the strike; this timetable made it untenable to get to my usual place of work on all but 4 occasions. (Journey was starting an hour later for the first train of the day, return journeys were no longer direct and could be anything up to 2 hours longer then normal)
I had to travel to other locations to work, which cost me more money and I had to postpone a new role and associated pay rise for the same reasons.

As a resolution to the complaint I have requested they refund the cost of Decembers season ticket...


The SWR response to date has been as per below with no deviation:

Thank you for your email regarding the current industrial action by the RMT union on our network. We’re working hard to deliver the best possible service we can relying on those guards who report for work, as well as our team of hard-working contingency guards. Many of these guards will be giving up their Christmas plans to keep everyone moving. Unfortunately, during this strike action we are running a reduced service across our network. I’m sorry that this has led to overcrowding on our services, our amended timetable seeks to maximise the number of services operating in peak periods to maximise capacity at the busiest times. Where additional resource has become available, we've been able to provide additional services, providing further capacity during this period of industrial action.”

The arrangements for compensation are set out in our Passenger’s Charter (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/other/about-us/passengers-charter), This includes the following provision: Where an emergency timetable or amended timetable is in place, delays are calculated according to the revised timetable. In terms of compensation during the strike, delay repay is be available to customers who have been delayed by 15 minutes or more against our amended timetable. Any update on this will be communicated to our customers through our website.

I hope this information is useful and thank you for contacting South Western Railway.

I don't think I am being unreasonable in expecting a straightforward refund?

What would you do?

What should I do next/differently? (Other than move 130 miles nearer to work)

[rigga]

Timetable change was nothing to do with the strike action, it was a national roll out by all train operators, (ours included) as one single operator cannot change train times without a knock on effect to every other one.

[kestral]

I think you are not entitled to a refund. Season tickets are compensated for canellation or delay.

These people at this site will tell you. https://www.railforums.co.uk/forums/disputes-prose...

[BrettMRC]

rigga said:

Timetable change was nothing to do with the strike action, it was a national roll out by all train operators, (ours included) as one single operator cannot change train times without a knock on effect to every other one.

SWR put in place a timetable specifically to deal with the strike, it was not a new service rollout etc.

[Nezquick]

As above - no refund I think.

The company I use to get to work - Trans Pennine Express - have just agreed to refund all season ticket holders 3% for this very same period. Works out at about £87 for me so nowhere near the cost of a months travel but better than a punch in the guts.

I do often wonder what would happen though if someone sued them via Money Claim Online and Small Claims Court. It would be interesting to see whether they paid you or not.

[rigga]

BrettMRC said:

SWR put in place a timetable specifically to deal with the strike, it was not a new service rollout etc.

Every TOC changed the timetable in Dec, south west Railway ran a reduced service due to strike action


As I've already stated, one operator on their own cannot change the timetable that their trains run to, as It has a direct affect on every other operator whether in that region or not ...... they ran a reduced service

Edited by rigga on Tuesday 7th January 15:31

Edited by rigga on Tuesday 7th January 15:33

[BrettMRC]

Ok, I understand that - I was using SWR own terminology; "Emergency timetable".

Interesting that a train operator can make a huge alteration to the timetables and the annual season ticket holders have very little recourse.

Todays replies to me from SWR are bording on the rude now. (Basically "tough")

[sospan]

Were there any provisions for bus replacement?

[krisdelta]

I am heading down the Section 75 Consumer credit act route for my season ticket last year. 1700+ minutes of delays on my commute in one year, hardly the mark of a service delivered with appropriate skill and care.

[BrettMRC]

sospan said:

Were there any provisions for bus replacement?

From stations further west of me yes, but only as a shuttle from the far west to south somerset.

Usual service would leave at 05:14, during strike this was 06:15 and took longer. (never mind the random delays and cancellations etc)
Return service was from London to Salisbury, then a wait at Salisbury as trains only running every 2 hours going west from Salisbury.

SWR just don't seem to get why my employer would rather I worked from home or Bristol than waste half the day on the train.

As with the Southern rail strikes... the customers suffer significantly and there is little redress.

Edited by BrettMRC on Tuesday 7th January 16:56

[J2daG1990]

£4372 a year for me to travel from Kent into London with Southeastern. Price goes up every year and the services get worse. For that price, I don't even get a seat on the way in because the trains are too over-crowded and 1st class is declassified pretty much every day. Yet they still do it because they can and they know people have no choice but to pay up. I say make them publicly owned.

[FarmyardPants]

The OP has my sympathy and a refund would normally be appropriate for a service you buy that doesn’t deliver, but SWR don’t work that way, you have to claim for every journey (which is obviously such a ball ache not everyone bothers).

My yearly season ticket expired before the strike action and I managed to negotiate working from home but I feel for those whose season tickets straddled the December debacle. They should be offered a month refund.

[surveyor]

FarmyardPants said:

The OP has my sympathy and a refund would normally be appropriate for a service you buy that doesn’t deliver, but SWR don’t work that way, you have to claim for every journey (which is obviously such a ball ache not everyone bothers).

My yearly season ticket expired before the strike action and I managed to negotiate working from home but I feel for those whose season tickets straddled the December debacle. They should be offered a month refund.

He can’t claim on that basis as they changed the timetable to delete the service. Cunning.

[JB95]

First thing that popped into my head when i saw this title was "is this fella a Man United fan"

[Chrisgr31]

If I recall correctly when Southern had all the strikes there was no compensation and you were unable to claim delay repay. However eventually a compensation scheme was introduced.

According to SWRs franchise agreement they should be compensated by the Department for Transport for losses caused by industrial disputes. Therefore they will be compensated by the government.

In the meantime if you are not happy I would complain to Transport Focus and copy it to your MP
https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/advice-and-compl...

[FiF]

Nezquick said:

As above - no refund I think.

The company I use to get to work - Trans Pennine Express - have just agreed to refund all season ticket holders 3% for this very same period. Works out at about £87 for me so nowhere near the cost of a months travel but better than a punch in the guts.

I do often wonder what would happen though if someone sued them via Money Claim Online and Small Claims Court. It would be interesting to see whether they paid you or not.

Company we ( family members) use is West Midland Trains. They have offered 3% reduction due to their utterly lousy service. (example below *)

Yet here comes the rub, if their trains share the track with another operator then no reduction. So on our journeys the tracks are shared with some services from GWR also Chiltern. It matters not two hoots that the season tickets are not sensibly usable with those operators, the track is shared so customers can go swivel.

Example* last train in the evening during Christmas market week out of Worcester Foregate St, stopping at Shrub Hill, Droitwich, Hartlebury, Kidderminster and onto Birmingham and Whitlocks End. Customers waiting in Foregate St, no train, definitely no train, kept being told one is coming, then "we just have to move this one to Hereford and your train will be released."

Looking at National Rail app we can now see that "our train" has no service record for Foregate St but has already departed Shrub Hill and is on way to Droitwich. WTF

Keep being told that have been in communication with control and there is definitely a train coming. Confronted over app information, goes away, later admits that they have replacement bus service coming. Literally two minutes later, coaches arrive, they check who is going where and they load you onto appropriate coach. Fortunately first off our coach. Those coaches had been ordered while people were still being told the train would arrive albeit very late.

Here comes the rub, put in a claim for disruption to journey, which they have refused as claiming that the service ran as normal from Foregate St. Fecking untrustworthy cretins.

/rant

[rigga]

I work for west midlands, and we are rightly being hammered for our service, and I can understand the frustration that customers are having to face, current timetable is woeful, and has been admitted as such, when it was introduced, even those like me who maintain the units saw issues ahead, but those who are paid far more than I know better.
Unfortunately the railway is like an isolated world, unlike any other, there is no ryme or reason for some of the decisions made .

[BertBert]

rigga said:

As I've already stated, one operator on their own cannot change the timetable that their trains run to, as It has a direct affect on every other operator whether in that region or not ...... they ran a reduced service

Really?
So now the strike has stopped how has the timetable changed to double the number of trains between Ewell West and Waterloo(for example)?
So now that the mudslide outside Epsom has just been fixed, how have they changed the timetable to cater for the through trains again?
Bert

[krisdelta]

BertBert said:

rigga said:

As I've already stated, one operator on their own cannot change the timetable that their trains run to, as It has a direct affect on every other operator whether in that region or not ...... they ran a reduced service

Really?
So now the strike has stopped how has the timetable changed to double the number of trains between Ewell West and Waterloo(for example)?
So now that the mudslide outside Epsom has just been fixed, how have they changed the timetable to cater for the through trains again?
Bert

I would assume this is where the infrastructure is shared, which isn’t the case on this line AIUI, it’s a SWR line only.

[rigga]

BertBert said:

Really?
So now the strike has stopped how has the timetable changed to double the number of trains between Ewell West and Waterloo(for example)?
So now that the mudslide outside Epsom has just been fixed, how have they changed the timetable to cater for the through trains again?
Bert

Because maybe now that the guards are not striking they can run a full quota, like when drivers go on strike, there are only so managers that are forced to drive, so less trains run.