Injector issues 2 weeks after buying car
Discussion
Hi all, my missus just bought a 2009 E92 325i from a trader 2 weeks ago and this weekend just gone, the dashboard lit up like a christmas tree throwing EML, ABS error, stability error, no cruise control.
As she only bought the car 2 weeks ago, she went back to the trader who initially pushed to get the car sorted under the useless warranty. After some persuasion he said he would sort it out after diagnosis.
Took it to our BMW specialist and they have recommended that it needs 6 new injectors along with wheel sensor and o2 sensor.
Sent the invoice to the dealer who said it was BS that all 6 injectors need replacing and that his 'guy' who is also a specialist (our garage had never heard of them, not do they have a website) would do the work but only replace one injector as thats the only one throwing up an error code.
We're well aware of BMW injector issues as her previous car was an e82 with the N43 engine. Advice when we had that car was at the very least replace injectors on the same bank, but best course of action is to replace all at the same time.
At this point, we just want a full refund as he is not willing to carry out the work at a proper specialist garage (I suspect his garage is just him or his mate).
Under Consumer Rights Act 2015, are we able to just reject the car outright at this stage as we purchased less than 30 days ago or do we have to wait for him to replace that one injector and then say it's not to our expectations?
As she only bought the car 2 weeks ago, she went back to the trader who initially pushed to get the car sorted under the useless warranty. After some persuasion he said he would sort it out after diagnosis.
Took it to our BMW specialist and they have recommended that it needs 6 new injectors along with wheel sensor and o2 sensor.
Sent the invoice to the dealer who said it was BS that all 6 injectors need replacing and that his 'guy' who is also a specialist (our garage had never heard of them, not do they have a website) would do the work but only replace one injector as thats the only one throwing up an error code.
We're well aware of BMW injector issues as her previous car was an e82 with the N43 engine. Advice when we had that car was at the very least replace injectors on the same bank, but best course of action is to replace all at the same time.
At this point, we just want a full refund as he is not willing to carry out the work at a proper specialist garage (I suspect his garage is just him or his mate).
Under Consumer Rights Act 2015, are we able to just reject the car outright at this stage as we purchased less than 30 days ago or do we have to wait for him to replace that one injector and then say it's not to our expectations?
Give him a chance to repair it.
BMW six new injectors. What else would you expect!
I had a BMW and took it in to get door locks repaired. I sat drinking coffee sat next to a pile of glossy BMW magazines watching their TV.
Job done half anhour later and the salesman gives me the bill, and says at the same time " we noticed the dampers are bouncing a bit as we drove over the speed bumps, we would recomend replacing them". "The clutch is also difficult going into first we would recomend replacing the clutch".
It would cost £xxx.
I said no thank you and walked out.
The car was scrapped 12yrs later with the same dampers on it and only had a clutch 80,000 miles after their diagnoses.
Keep well away from main dealers. Mugs game.
BMW six new injectors. What else would you expect!
I had a BMW and took it in to get door locks repaired. I sat drinking coffee sat next to a pile of glossy BMW magazines watching their TV.
Job done half anhour later and the salesman gives me the bill, and says at the same time " we noticed the dampers are bouncing a bit as we drove over the speed bumps, we would recomend replacing them". "The clutch is also difficult going into first we would recomend replacing the clutch".
It would cost £xxx.
I said no thank you and walked out.
The car was scrapped 12yrs later with the same dampers on it and only had a clutch 80,000 miles after their diagnoses.
Keep well away from main dealers. Mugs game.
kestral said:
Give him a chance to repair it.
BMW six new injectors. What else would you expect!
I had a BMW and took it in to get door locks repaired. I sat drinking coffee sat next to a pile of glossy BMW magazines watching their TV.
Job done half anhour later and the salesman gives me the bill, and says at the same time " we noticed the dampers are bouncing a bit as we drove over the speed bumps, we would recomend replacing them". "The clutch is also difficult going into first we would recomend replacing the clutch".
It would cost £xxx.
I said no thank you and walked out.
The car was scrapped 12yrs later with the same dampers on it and only had a clutch 80,000 miles after their diagnoses.
Keep well away from main dealers. Mugs game.
I can see where you are coming from the bill was a shock!BMW six new injectors. What else would you expect!
I had a BMW and took it in to get door locks repaired. I sat drinking coffee sat next to a pile of glossy BMW magazines watching their TV.
Job done half anhour later and the salesman gives me the bill, and says at the same time " we noticed the dampers are bouncing a bit as we drove over the speed bumps, we would recomend replacing them". "The clutch is also difficult going into first we would recomend replacing the clutch".
It would cost £xxx.
I said no thank you and walked out.
The car was scrapped 12yrs later with the same dampers on it and only had a clutch 80,000 miles after their diagnoses.
Keep well away from main dealers. Mugs game.
Not a main dealer though, it's an BMW indy we have been to previously and whom we trust. Much more than I can say about his 'guy'.
Strange how a car that was running fine suddenly needs all 6 injectors, an 02 sensor and a wheel sensor. Sounds like lazy diagnosis to me, just reading codes and changing everything possible in an attempt to get a fix. You have to give the supplying dealer a chance to fix it and very likely that will be replacing just one injector.
Have also got an N43 engine, and know quite a bit about the injectors issues on this family of engine.
Its possible to work out which injector is faulty, but typically just from inspection of the spark plug for dampness after leaving the engine for a period of time (so leaking fuel has time to show up on the plug). The engine only monitors the bank, not the individual injectors.
The o2 sensor is probably OK. A leaking injector on the bank is recognised as overfuelling on that bank, so the car compensates, which throws a wobbly further down the line ie the o2 sensor.
There are 12 (I think) iterations of the injectors, and anything including and before index 10, is not compatible with 11 and above. My car has 8s and you can't buy them new anymore, so it's a whole new set of 12s or a second hand 8. From a warranty point of view, I wouldn't want a mismatch and I wouldn't want second hand parts.
Its possible to work out which injector is faulty, but typically just from inspection of the spark plug for dampness after leaving the engine for a period of time (so leaking fuel has time to show up on the plug). The engine only monitors the bank, not the individual injectors.
The o2 sensor is probably OK. A leaking injector on the bank is recognised as overfuelling on that bank, so the car compensates, which throws a wobbly further down the line ie the o2 sensor.
There are 12 (I think) iterations of the injectors, and anything including and before index 10, is not compatible with 11 and above. My car has 8s and you can't buy them new anymore, so it's a whole new set of 12s or a second hand 8. From a warranty point of view, I wouldn't want a mismatch and I wouldn't want second hand parts.
Sir Bagalot said:
You bought a 11 year old car from a trader?
You can't expect all six injectors to be replaced.
Hand it back to the trader and ask him to fix it.
Well, having done the hours of reading into this for a similar problem I have, there are technical reasons for wanting all 6 injectors (or at the *very* least the whole bank). Having said that, I can understand why the garage will try to push back on this. You can't expect all six injectors to be replaced.
Hand it back to the trader and ask him to fix it.
The easiest route might be to return the car for full refund. The garage can then repair however they like, and the OP can buy another car without this issue
Wing Commander said:
Well, having done the hours of reading into this for a similar problem I have, there are technical reasons for wanting all 6 injectors (or at the *very* least the whole bank). Having said that, I can understand why the garage will try to push back on this.
The easiest route might be to return the car for full refund. The garage can then repair however they like, and the OP can buy another car without this issue
Thanks Wing Commander, this is our planned course of action. The advice I have always read was at least the whole bank, ideally all injectors.The easiest route might be to return the car for full refund. The garage can then repair however they like, and the OP can buy another car without this issue
stevensdrs said:
Strange how a car that was running fine suddenly needs all 6 injectors, an 02 sensor and a wheel sensor. Sounds like lazy diagnosis to me, just reading codes and changing everything possible in an attempt to get a fix. You have to give the supplying dealer a chance to fix it and very likely that will be replacing just one injector.
My suspicion isn't that the codes suddenly just appeared but rather he cleared the errors before selling the car and they have now regenerated. I know for a fact the ABS/wheel speed sensor needs replacing. These are seemingly consumables on this gen 3er though. KC_TypeR said:
My suspicion isn't that the codes suddenly just appeared but rather he cleared the errors before selling the car and they have now regenerated. I know for a fact the ABS/wheel speed sensor needs replacing. These are seemingly consumables on this gen 3er though.
100% agreeThe trader is under no obligation to carry out repairs suggested by a third party who has been retained by the buyer, even if they are a marque specialist.
If the fault is due to one injector failing, then the traders obligation is to fix the faulty injector - They do not have to replace all six injectors.
They are also under no obligation to fit a brand new part. If a second hand injector will fix the problem, then like it or not, that's up to them.
If the fault is due to one injector failing, then the traders obligation is to fix the faulty injector - They do not have to replace all six injectors.
They are also under no obligation to fit a brand new part. If a second hand injector will fix the problem, then like it or not, that's up to them.
Wing Commander said:
Have also got an N43 engine, and know quite a bit about the injectors issues on this family of engine.
Its possible to work out which injector is faulty, but typically just from inspection of the spark plug for dampness after leaving the engine for a period of time (so leaking fuel has time to show up on the plug). The engine only monitors the bank, not the individual injectors.
The o2 sensor is probably OK. A leaking injector on the bank is recognised as overfuelling on that bank, so the car compensates, which throws a wobbly further down the line ie the o2 sensor.
There are 12 (I think) iterations of the injectors, and anything including and before index 10, is not compatible with 11 and above. My car has 8s and you can't buy them new anymore, so it's a whole new set of 12s or a second hand 8. From a warranty point of view, I wouldn't want a mismatch and I wouldn't want second hand parts.
Sounds like good advice. Its possible to work out which injector is faulty, but typically just from inspection of the spark plug for dampness after leaving the engine for a period of time (so leaking fuel has time to show up on the plug). The engine only monitors the bank, not the individual injectors.
The o2 sensor is probably OK. A leaking injector on the bank is recognised as overfuelling on that bank, so the car compensates, which throws a wobbly further down the line ie the o2 sensor.
There are 12 (I think) iterations of the injectors, and anything including and before index 10, is not compatible with 11 and above. My car has 8s and you can't buy them new anymore, so it's a whole new set of 12s or a second hand 8. From a warranty point of view, I wouldn't want a mismatch and I wouldn't want second hand parts.
Assuming it fixes the car for the duration of the (1yr?) warranty I think I would be happy with a single used injector if the right index no.
It's not a new or high performance car.
Daniel
The dealer can replace an injector with either new or used, it came with used injectors after all. If it cures the fault that's all that matters.
Take absolutely no notice of the BMW dealer saying it needs all six replaced that's just BS.
The 02 sensor won't need replacing either that's just due to the faulty injector..
Take absolutely no notice of the BMW dealer saying it needs all six replaced that's just BS.
The 02 sensor won't need replacing either that's just due to the faulty injector..
Thanks for all your replies. Our current course of action is to seek a refund now which is well within our right. We have put this to the trader in writing and waiting for him to pick the car up (he initially wanted us to drop it off) and have his partners inspect the car before issuing a refund.
Obviously we are disappointed this is the result as we searched for a while to find this E92. The reaction of the trader fobbing us off towards the useless warranty when we alerted him of the fault didn't fill us with confidence, so I feel we are making the right decision. His anger upon telling him so only solidified this.
Having been burned twice with BMW injector issues, we're now looking at a similarly priced Lexus IS.
Obviously we are disappointed this is the result as we searched for a while to find this E92. The reaction of the trader fobbing us off towards the useless warranty when we alerted him of the fault didn't fill us with confidence, so I feel we are making the right decision. His anger upon telling him so only solidified this.
Having been burned twice with BMW injector issues, we're now looking at a similarly priced Lexus IS.
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