Lease question

[Bussolini]

We are in an annual lease that expires on 17 April, currently with one month's notice to terminate. We are getting asked if we intend to extend by the managing agent. Location is London

Simultaneously we are trying to buy a house - almost there, but finding it tricky to pin the vendors down to a completion date. They initially said pre Christmas...

If the completion date extends beyond say early March, we suspect the managing agent will start pressing us to confirm what we are doing vis a vis the lease. We obviously don't want to sign another years lease. The managing agent don't yet know of our plans to leave.

Am I right in thinking I can simply say to the managing agent we intend to stay on the present lease terms but do not wish to enter into another annual lease? And they can only evict with a s21 notice, which seems unlikely? They can under the lease serve on us one month notice, but we could presumably just refuse to vacate...and why would they, given we are good tenants that pay the rent every month.

The other option is to be entirely open and say look we want another month or two but we do intend to leave once we complete on our house. Not sure how well this would be received. Input from landlords appreciated.

[sc0tt]

Just explain that after april you would like your tenancy to roll monthly that way you won't need to renew and thus save fees. I did similar a couple of years ago when I was in exactly your position.

Thanks

[Twin1]

We're in a similar position - trying to buy but lease end at the beginning of March. We were just honest with the landlord that we want to stay until we move somewhere else. She agreed to us extending the lease for another year but we can break it with two months' notice at any time. Like you say, avoids the risk of a new tenant. Our landlord's main concern was having enough time to re-market (although we're in a nice but of south-west London so two months is plenty!).

You might want to avoid getting any closer to the end of your lease without tying something up. The agent for our flat kept sending emails talking about coming round to put a "To Let" sign outside whilst we sorted this out with the landlord!

[Bussolini]

We currently have a one month notice break clause, so if we could continue as is, great. I am sure the managing agent will start pressing us soon...

[sc0tt]

Are you on a periodic tenancy?

[Bussolini]

sc0tt said:

Are you on a periodic tenancy?

It's a 12m AST with 1m notice on either side after 6m. As I understand it, we can only be removed from possession with a court order if one of the eviction grounds in the act applies. The 12m is only an initial term and the lease automatically rolls over on the same terms thereafter. Anyone able to confirm that is correct?

[Bussolini]

And I get chased this afternoon. I responded simply saying we are happy for the lease to continue on its present terms. Let's see what they say!

Edit: they possibly mischievously interpreted that as me saying we wanted to renew for a further 12 months. Suspect they get a fee if we do. Had to make it crystal clear that is not our intention

Edited by Bussolini on Tuesday 18th February 15:31

[spookly]

I've not rented for years, but when I did I never signed renewal contracts. I left them all as rolling AST. If they'd insisted on signing then I would have moved. Every time it was the agents who wanted to sign a renewal, but the landlords were quite happy with a rolling months notice as they knew we were good tenants.

I seem to remember the last time it happened, the agent was asking for a £250 fee. Just for changing a date on a word document and printing it. I expect they were probably charging the landlord too.

[sc0tt]

As above, after the initial year change to periodic. My LL agents wanted around £200 to change the dates on the tenancy agreement but my LL was happy to continue rolling as he would have had to pay fees his side too. If you need further info drop me a PM and I can dig out the emails I sent the agency.

[surveyor]

Unless I have missed something somewhere I believe the LL has to give a minimum of 2 months notice, no matter what the contract says. This is definitely the case if it goes beyond the expiry date and reverts to a statutory periodic AST

[Bussolini]

surveyor said:

Unless I have missed something somewhere I believe the LL has to give a minimum of 2 months notice, no matter what the contract says. This is definitely the case if it goes beyond the expiry date and reverts to a statutory periodic AST

I think from my research that is right vis a vis a periodic tenancy, though our AST says only one month.

It looks like we might exchange in time, which will hopefully make this discussion academic!

[BertBert]

I feel you might be confused about your lease from what you've said. You've said it expires after 12 months, but then said after 12 months it automatically rolls with a notice period either way.

If the latter is correct, which I suspect it is, then your lease doesn't expire. All this talk of possible eviction is not needed. The right answer to the agent is that the lease is fine thanks.

Bert

[hutchst]

BertBert said:

I feel you might be confused about your lease from what you've said. You've said it expires after 12 months, but then said after 12 months it automatically rolls with a notice period either way.

If the latter is correct, which I suspect it is, then your lease doesn't expire. All this talk of possible eviction is not needed. The right answer to the agent is that the lease is fine thanks.

Bert

I don't think he is. All ASTs automatically rollover from fixed-term to periodic at the end of the fixed term unless either the tenant leaves or the landlord gives proper notice. I haven't read one for a while, but the landlords notice period in the periodic phase is determined by the rental payment period, subject to a 2 month minimum. So if rent is paid monthly, the notice period is 2 months (but usually measured from the rental payment day following the notice). If it's quarterly then 3 months, etc.

Remember that the landlord can give notice before the end of the fixed period, so I think in this instance he could give notice before 17 March to vacate by 17 May. If I was the tenant here I would be speaking to the landlord to let him know what's going on.

[156651]

hutchst said:

I don't think he is. All ASTs automatically rollover from fixed-term to periodic at the end of the fixed term unless either the tenant leaves or the landlord gives proper notice. I haven't read one for a while, but the landlords notice period in the periodic phase is determined by the rental payment period, subject to a 2 month minimum. So if rent is paid monthly, the notice period is 2 months (but usually measured from the rental payment day following the notice). If it's quarterly then 3 months, etc.

Remember that the landlord can give notice before the end of the fixed period, so I think in this instance he could give notice before 17 March to vacate by 17 May. If I was the tenant here I would be speaking to the landlord to let him know what's going on.

I think that is right - in fact during the term of the AST, he could give us one months notice to leave, as that is what the AST says - but I also think the managing agent is angling for a fee for a lease renewal - why would the landlord care, given we are presently paying rent every month and could give a months' notice anyway? As long as we keep paying our rent and don't cause him any problems, not sure what incentive he would have to try and evict us.

[Biker 1]

talking to the landlord would be my first port of call. Assuming you are a good tenant, paying on time & not being a 'nuisance', surely its in everyone's interest to continue on a rolling contract. The eviction process costs landlords an awful lot of money, so I can't really see an issue here.....

[BertBert]

hutchst said:

I don't think he is. All ASTs automatically rollover from fixed-term to periodic at the end of the fixed term unless either the tenant leaves or the landlord gives proper notice. I haven't read one for a while, but the landlords notice period in the periodic phase is determined by the rental payment period, subject to a 2 month minimum. So if rent is paid monthly, the notice period is 2 months (but usually measured from the rental payment day following the notice). If it's quarterly then 3 months, etc.

Remember that the landlord can give notice before the end of the fixed period, so I think in this instance he could give notice before 17 March to vacate by 17 May. If I was the tenant here I would be speaking to the landlord to let him know what's going on.

i think he was. The statement that the lease expired after 12 months is wrong. He's not had notice (as far as the narrative goes so far). Yes of course he might get notice and if he decides not to move out having been given notice, then pain starts, but that's not the situation.

Bert

[Bussolini]

BertBert said:

i think he was. The statement that the lease expired after 12 months is wrong. He's not had notice (as far as the narrative goes so far). Yes of course he might get notice and if he decides not to move out having been given notice, then pain starts, but that's not the situation.

Bert

As I understand it the AST will expire and become a periodic tenancy on 17 April provided no notice is served by either party.