Fined for legitimately stopping in no stopping zone.
Discussion
The pic above is me paused on a dark and rainy night reading the car-park rules sign and about to take a ticket before entering the hotel car-park for the night. I seem to remember a white van acting suspiciously behind me, now I know why.
Behind me are the giveway lines showing i'm off the main road, to the left front is the sign. Pic was taken near Bristol airport who operate a 'No stopping' rule. I've been sent a £100 fine.
I went for the first appeal, as you have to appeal to them, obviously it was turned down.
Now I have to go to an independent appeal with the IAS.
Anyone been in a situation like this before that can offer any advice?
Evoluzione said:
Now I have to go to an independent appeal with the IAS.
Anyone been in a situation like this before that can offer any advice?
Be prepared for a shafting.Anyone been in a situation like this before that can offer any advice?
The IAS appeal system has been likened to a kangaroo court. Heavily biased in favour of the IPC client PPCs. Which one is it btw?
I'm guessing you were zapped here.
There is something peculiar about that pic of your car. Why is it stopped at such an odd angle?
Plus I wouldn't have thought you were close enough to read the car park T&Cs after dark.
If your car is stopped in the pic it hasn't cleared the double reds.
The above is important because there is a car sized gap between where the double red lines cease and the upright sign.
That said, all is not lost.
S11Steve on here is the man for this. Also check out the MSE and PePiPoo* forums which are dedicated to this subject.
* There is a thread on page 1 about Bristol Airport which you may find useful.
Airports are usually covered by byelaws which make them 'not relevant land' for PoFA 2012
Red Devil said:
1. Be prepared for a shafting.
2. The IAS appeal system has been likened to a kangaroo court. Heavily biased in favour of the IPC client PPCs. Which one is it btw?
3. I'm guessing you were zapped here.
4. There is something peculiar about that pic of your car. Why is it stopped at such an odd angle?
Plus I wouldn't have thought you were close enough to read the car park T&Cs after dark.
5. If your car is stopped in the pic it hasn't cleared the double reds.
The above is important because there is a car sized gap between where the double red lines cease and the upright sign.
That said, all is not lost.
S11Steve on here is the man for this. Also check out the MSE and PePiPoo* forums which are dedicated to this subject.
* There is a thread on page 1 about Bristol Airport which you may find useful.
Airports are usually covered by byelaws which make them 'not relevant land' for PoFA 2012
To briefly answer your points:2. The IAS appeal system has been likened to a kangaroo court. Heavily biased in favour of the IPC client PPCs. Which one is it btw?
3. I'm guessing you were zapped here.
4. There is something peculiar about that pic of your car. Why is it stopped at such an odd angle?
Plus I wouldn't have thought you were close enough to read the car park T&Cs after dark.
5. If your car is stopped in the pic it hasn't cleared the double reds.
The above is important because there is a car sized gap between where the double red lines cease and the upright sign.
That said, all is not lost.
S11Steve on here is the man for this. Also check out the MSE and PePiPoo* forums which are dedicated to this subject.
* There is a thread on page 1 about Bristol Airport which you may find useful.
Airports are usually covered by byelaws which make them 'not relevant land' for PoFA 2012
1. Thanks, maybe Covid 19 will help if the office is now unmanned!
2. There seem to be so many different companies involved it's difficult to separate one from another, VCS seems to be the main one, with Excel Parking services mentioned too.
3. Yes, by the white painted triangle right in the middle of the screen.
4. I'm reading the sign which I believe is illuminated, I had to stop there to do that so I could see it through the windscreen. They've timed me at 30 seconds.
5. Yes looking at the Google aerial I would say a good 3/4 of the car is between the red lines. I know ignorance is no defence, but I've never been there before and where I live we don't have these red lines and laws. In the dark, rain, in an unfamiliar place and also being tired & upset I just didn't take any of it in. I wasn't there on holiday, far from it, but at this stage that's irrelevant.
Obviously what I'm questioning is how can they put a sign there which takes some reading, then when you stop to read it they take a pic and fine you! It seems like entrapment, i'm wondering how this would stand up in court.
Thanks for the response, i'll follow the leads up.
Evoluzione said:
The pic above is me paused on a dark and rainy night reading the car-park rules sign and about to take a ticket before entering the hotel car-park for the night. I seem to remember a white van acting suspiciously behind me, now I know why.
Behind me are the giveway lines showing i'm off the main road, to the left front is the sign. Pic was taken near Bristol airport who operate a 'No stopping' rule. I've been sent a £100 fine.
I went for the first appeal, as you have to appeal to them, obviously it was turned down.
Now I have to go to an independent appeal with the IAS.
Anyone been in a situation like this before that can offer any advice?
As another poster says.
"Also check out the MSE and PePiPoo* forums which are dedicated to this subject."
Check if the road is covered by byelaws if it is as other say POFA does not apply. Even if it does the sign will say no stopping. It could only form a contract if it offered you the oppertunity to stop.
No good appealing you will lose. Highly likely you will win if they take you to court and you prepare properly. However, that will take a bit of work.
speedking31 said:
Red Devil said:
If your car is stopped in the pic it hasn't cleared the double reds.
The above is important because there is a car sized gap between where the double red lines cease and the upright sign.
What if there was a car at the barrier?The above is important because there is a car sized gap between where the double red lines cease and the upright sign.
Another potential problem for the OP is that he has already appealed to the PPC.
Without knowing exactly what he said in his correspondence, it is possible he hasn't used the correct strategy.
And may have inadvertently put himself at a disadvantage.
It is essential to use the available time window to do your homework before making any contact.
This article exemplifies the way the IAS/IPC treat people.
The CEO of the IPC was also a director of a solicitors firm in Cheshire* which acts for PPCs in litigation.
A conflict of interest which the government has done nothing to stop.
* Until he found it prudent to distance himself by resigning therefrom.
Basically just window dressing. The linkage hasn't disappeared, it's just gone underground.
KungFuPanda said:
Just let them issue Court proceedings against you and then defend them with your evidence.
That’s the only avenue they can go down now. Some do, some don’t.
I don’t think the parking firm would issue Court Proceedings. No guarantees but I reckon they’ll huff, puff, threaten and do nothing.That’s the only avenue they can go down now. Some do, some don’t.
They know they’d be likely to lose.
bad company said:
I don’t think the parking firm would issue Court Proceedings. No guarantees but I reckon they’ll huff, puff, threaten and do nothing.
They know they’d be likely to lose.
That is what seems to have happened so far. About one year on now and after trying reason, i've just had a few threatening letters, gradually ramping it up with increases and a threat of court action before Christmas. I would have been prepared to go to court to defend it, but nothing since.They know they’d be likely to lose.
Still time maybe?
Evoluzione said:
bad company said:
I don’t think the parking firm would issue Court Proceedings. No guarantees but I reckon they’ll huff, puff, threaten and do nothing.
They know they’d be likely to lose.
That is what seems to have happened so far. About one year on now and after trying reason, i've just had a few threatening letters, gradually ramping it up with increases and a threat of court action before Christmas. I would have been prepared to go to court to defend it, but nothing since.They know they’d be likely to lose.
Still time maybe?
I wouldn’t do anything more, hang onto all the paperwork though, just in case.
Edited by bad company on Tuesday 16th March 11:01
OP
A quick heads up.
Should you decide to move within the 6 year period write and avise the PPC of your new address, also by email so you have a copy.
Reason being is over on pepipoo there have been several cases of people getting CCJ because of not notifying the PPC.
The devious bar stewards work on the basis that you have forgotten all about it and may have moved
As a result of writing to the last known address and not getting a reply the start proceedings, You will not know about this as you are not there and the CCJ goes through unopposed
Just remember that you only get a CCJ against hyou,if you do not pay it within the timescale, Many people think that iftheyget to the CCJ stage then the credit check will go against them...It doesn't.. Pay what you have been asked to pay by the date specified and no CCJ
As regards the stopping you should be given reasonable time to read and accept he conditions Also if the area is on the airport it is possible that POFA does not apply as it is not 'relavent land' This, in a nutshell, means the PPC cannot pursue the RK only the driver .The RK is under no legal obligation to name the driver, especially if the 'invoice' is not worded exactly as reqd in POFA 2012.
This is why when you get one of these requests for money you should NEVER say or intimate in any way shape or form, who was behind the wheel even if it was you. It is always The Driver saw this, the driver did that. Once you write I saw the notice, My wife/uncle/son did this the anonymity is lost
The harder you make them work the more chance they will drp you and chase easier targets. However some PPC are very litigious. Pepipoo are the ones to go to to see who are best to avoid ESP IAS appeals. POPLA at least gives you a fighting chance!!
A quick heads up.
Should you decide to move within the 6 year period write and avise the PPC of your new address, also by email so you have a copy.
Reason being is over on pepipoo there have been several cases of people getting CCJ because of not notifying the PPC.
The devious bar stewards work on the basis that you have forgotten all about it and may have moved
As a result of writing to the last known address and not getting a reply the start proceedings, You will not know about this as you are not there and the CCJ goes through unopposed
Just remember that you only get a CCJ against hyou,if you do not pay it within the timescale, Many people think that iftheyget to the CCJ stage then the credit check will go against them...It doesn't.. Pay what you have been asked to pay by the date specified and no CCJ
As regards the stopping you should be given reasonable time to read and accept he conditions Also if the area is on the airport it is possible that POFA does not apply as it is not 'relavent land' This, in a nutshell, means the PPC cannot pursue the RK only the driver .The RK is under no legal obligation to name the driver, especially if the 'invoice' is not worded exactly as reqd in POFA 2012.
This is why when you get one of these requests for money you should NEVER say or intimate in any way shape or form, who was behind the wheel even if it was you. It is always The Driver saw this, the driver did that. Once you write I saw the notice, My wife/uncle/son did this the anonymity is lost
The harder you make them work the more chance they will drp you and chase easier targets. However some PPC are very litigious. Pepipoo are the ones to go to to see who are best to avoid ESP IAS appeals. POPLA at least gives you a fighting chance!!
silverfoxcc said:
OP
A quick heads up.
Should you decide to move within the 6 year period write and avise the PPC of your new address, also by email so you have a copy.
Reason being is over on pepipoo there have been several cases of people getting CCJ because of not notifying the PPC.
The devious bar stewards work on the basis that you have forgotten all about it and may have moved
As a result of writing to the last known address and not getting a reply the start proceedings, You will not know about this as you are not there and the CCJ goes through unopposed
Just remember that you only get a CCJ against hyou,if you do not pay it within the timescale, Many people think that iftheyget to the CCJ stage then the credit check will go against them...It doesn't.. Pay what you have been asked to pay by the date specified and no CCJ
As regards the stopping you should be given reasonable time to read and accept he conditions Also if the area is on the airport it is possible that POFA does not apply as it is not 'relavent land' This, in a nutshell, means the PPC cannot pursue the RK only the driver .The RK is under no legal obligation to name the driver, especially if the 'invoice' is not worded exactly as reqd in POFA 2012.
This is why when you get one of these requests for money you should NEVER say or intimate in any way shape or form, who was behind the wheel even if it was you. It is always The Driver saw this, the driver did that. Once you write I saw the notice, My wife/uncle/son did this the anonymity is lost
The harder you make them work the more chance they will drp you and chase easier targets. However some PPC are very litigious. Pepipoo are the ones to go to to see who are best to avoid ESP IAS appeals. POPLA at least gives you a fighting chance!!
Good advice but we’re talking about something that happened over a year ago so I’d say the chances are that the parking firm aren’t going to issue Court proceedings. Also if the op were to move and a CCJ goes through at the old address it should be easy to get the judgment set aside.A quick heads up.
Should you decide to move within the 6 year period write and avise the PPC of your new address, also by email so you have a copy.
Reason being is over on pepipoo there have been several cases of people getting CCJ because of not notifying the PPC.
The devious bar stewards work on the basis that you have forgotten all about it and may have moved
As a result of writing to the last known address and not getting a reply the start proceedings, You will not know about this as you are not there and the CCJ goes through unopposed
Just remember that you only get a CCJ against hyou,if you do not pay it within the timescale, Many people think that iftheyget to the CCJ stage then the credit check will go against them...It doesn't.. Pay what you have been asked to pay by the date specified and no CCJ
As regards the stopping you should be given reasonable time to read and accept he conditions Also if the area is on the airport it is possible that POFA does not apply as it is not 'relavent land' This, in a nutshell, means the PPC cannot pursue the RK only the driver .The RK is under no legal obligation to name the driver, especially if the 'invoice' is not worded exactly as reqd in POFA 2012.
This is why when you get one of these requests for money you should NEVER say or intimate in any way shape or form, who was behind the wheel even if it was you. It is always The Driver saw this, the driver did that. Once you write I saw the notice, My wife/uncle/son did this the anonymity is lost
The harder you make them work the more chance they will drp you and chase easier targets. However some PPC are very litigious. Pepipoo are the ones to go to to see who are best to avoid ESP IAS appeals. POPLA at least gives you a fighting chance!!
My advice remains to do nothing.
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