Children Issues
Discussion
This is going to be a long post, so i apologise.
My partner (33) has two children from a previous relationship. 5 years ago she broke up with her ex husband to be with me (I also know the ex husband - we went to school together). This was a rather bitter split, as my partner was fed up of being dictated too, ex husband always very career focused and money orientated. After the split, he took an overdose, with the kids in the house, in order to try and get her to go back (he also has a fairly high position in the NHS, so was well aware what he was doing overdose wise!), he got put on antidepressants, they sorted the finances and She took the debt that was in her name, and he took the debt that was in his name (considerably more - he was a spender!). They had a house together, which she had paid the deposit on, so it was agreed (very reluctantly) - that he give her the house deposit back, and that would be the end of it where houses were concerned.
It was decided that the childcare would be split 50/50 on a 3 days one week, 2 the next and alternate weekends with each parent. This is primarily because the ex husband didn't want to pay a penny in maintenance. My partner has a job in the NHS and has arranged that she works when the kids are with their dad, and when the kids are with us, she is here for them (so she works part time - likewise i do too).
Initially, the kids (now 12 and 7- both boys) were happy to go round their dads. Dad was single, had loads of time for them, they had dominos nights, movie nights, and built stuff in the garage etc, typical boy stuff and they liked it but they also suffered lots of manipulation, with the dad telling them how the split nearly killed him, how bad mummy was and she could have gone to prison for leaving him(!) etc
Then dad met a new lady, and within 2 weeks had moved her in and within a few months they were married. She then moved into the marital house. She also has a child from a previous relationship. At first everything was OK. Ex husband had rushed it a bit with new woman, getting married quickly and not really giving the kids chance to get used to her but on the surface everything seemed ok.
She then very quickly got her feet under the table and the kids dad changed almost overnight. He lets her make all the house rules, gone at the fun times like movie night, or having pizza nights etc, everything is very regimented.
She hasn't really treated the kids that well either. She shouts, swears and on one occasion, even told the dad to put fairly liquid in the younger childs mouth as he said a naughty word.
Neither child now really likes going round there, especially the 12 year old, who is now old enough to express his thoughts and feelings more clearly. He likes his dad, but absolutely hates his dads partner. Unfortunately, they are both very manipulative and both very much talk the talk. Mum has tried to tell Dad about the problems with his wife and that she just needs to back off a little, don't be so strict on rules and regulations in the house, and generally, dad just needs to grow a bit of a backbone and not be totally ruled by a woman. (he used to be quite authoritative himself but not overly so, but hes very much pussy whipped now and does everything his wife says!)
This has come to a head a few times, with the 12 year old expressing he wants to stay with us as he doesn't like his dads partner. Of course he is always welcome with us, but dad INSISTS he has to stick to this 50/50 arrangement. Again we have tried telling dad what the problem is, and his dad is totally deluded, insisting that we are the manipulators and are feeding 12 year olds thoughts and that we are evil. Dad has in the past, even got physical and bundled the kids into the car and dragged them out.
Fast forward to this week and its happened again. 12 year old doesn't want to go to his dads. The problem is that during lockdown, dad has still been putting his career first, and going to work every day on his time, leaving the kids with his wife, who the kids hate. This all came to a head yesterday when 12 year old refused to go but the 7 year old decided to go in the end and see his dad.
Dad has done nothing but harass us ever since. Constantly phoning, texting, asking when 12 year old is coming back to his. Apparently we are harbouring bad behaviour (since when did a child expressing where he wanted to be constitute bad behaviour?), dad is totally ignorant to the issues with his wife, he just says "we both love the kids and put them first, they have a loving home". That indeed might be his perception, but certainly isnt the perception of the kids.
We told 12 year old that the best solution is to not get angry, and just tell his dad in a calm, straight manor, what the problems are and why he does't want to see his dad. To his credit today, 12 year old has done just that, phoned his dad and told him in a calm manor, that he doesn't like his dads partner, shes too much, she makes all the rules and he even said "dad, shes really changed you and you aren't the person you used to be". The dads response was that this was a load of rubbish and that 12 year old needs to sort himself out and get his arse round there. In the meantime, me and mum are being harassed by him, and being accused again of feeding his thoughts and putting rubbish into his head. He has also said he is not releasing the 7 year old back to us, until 12 year old agrees to go round there again (7 year old is a BIG mummys boy and would be greatly upset by this).
We have rang our local council this morning who have family help department this morning (they have been involved before when the kids said they didn't want to go round their dads). All they basically said this time was that as they have 50/50 responsibility, dad is within his rights to keep 7 year old round his, just as we are entitled to keep 12 year old round ours.
I guess my next question is, what is the next thing we can do? Dad just absolutely point blank refuses to accept that the issues are to do with his partner, and its us putting words into the 12 year olds mouth. Dad has threatened us with solicitors (we are used to this and so far its come to nothing. My partner says even if he does get solicitors, she will represent herself, as she is only acting in the best interests of her kids. If they don't want to go round their dads because of his partner, they don't have too).
We currently have 12 year old with us, who is as good as gold generally considering all the bulls
t and manipulation he has been through in the past. It doesn't help that him and his dad used to be really close, but all that has gone since new wife came on the scene.
I understand that with a 50/50 arrangement, both have parental responsibility, but surely keeping a 7 year old round his dads because his 12 year old doesn't want to come round, can't be right? He said if we attempt to go round there to collect the 7 year old on Saturday as we usually do, they will be out of the house.
Any advice would be most welcome.
Thank you
My partner (33) has two children from a previous relationship. 5 years ago she broke up with her ex husband to be with me (I also know the ex husband - we went to school together). This was a rather bitter split, as my partner was fed up of being dictated too, ex husband always very career focused and money orientated. After the split, he took an overdose, with the kids in the house, in order to try and get her to go back (he also has a fairly high position in the NHS, so was well aware what he was doing overdose wise!), he got put on antidepressants, they sorted the finances and She took the debt that was in her name, and he took the debt that was in his name (considerably more - he was a spender!). They had a house together, which she had paid the deposit on, so it was agreed (very reluctantly) - that he give her the house deposit back, and that would be the end of it where houses were concerned.
It was decided that the childcare would be split 50/50 on a 3 days one week, 2 the next and alternate weekends with each parent. This is primarily because the ex husband didn't want to pay a penny in maintenance. My partner has a job in the NHS and has arranged that she works when the kids are with their dad, and when the kids are with us, she is here for them (so she works part time - likewise i do too).
Initially, the kids (now 12 and 7- both boys) were happy to go round their dads. Dad was single, had loads of time for them, they had dominos nights, movie nights, and built stuff in the garage etc, typical boy stuff and they liked it but they also suffered lots of manipulation, with the dad telling them how the split nearly killed him, how bad mummy was and she could have gone to prison for leaving him(!) etc
Then dad met a new lady, and within 2 weeks had moved her in and within a few months they were married. She then moved into the marital house. She also has a child from a previous relationship. At first everything was OK. Ex husband had rushed it a bit with new woman, getting married quickly and not really giving the kids chance to get used to her but on the surface everything seemed ok.
She then very quickly got her feet under the table and the kids dad changed almost overnight. He lets her make all the house rules, gone at the fun times like movie night, or having pizza nights etc, everything is very regimented.
She hasn't really treated the kids that well either. She shouts, swears and on one occasion, even told the dad to put fairly liquid in the younger childs mouth as he said a naughty word.
Neither child now really likes going round there, especially the 12 year old, who is now old enough to express his thoughts and feelings more clearly. He likes his dad, but absolutely hates his dads partner. Unfortunately, they are both very manipulative and both very much talk the talk. Mum has tried to tell Dad about the problems with his wife and that she just needs to back off a little, don't be so strict on rules and regulations in the house, and generally, dad just needs to grow a bit of a backbone and not be totally ruled by a woman. (he used to be quite authoritative himself but not overly so, but hes very much pussy whipped now and does everything his wife says!)
This has come to a head a few times, with the 12 year old expressing he wants to stay with us as he doesn't like his dads partner. Of course he is always welcome with us, but dad INSISTS he has to stick to this 50/50 arrangement. Again we have tried telling dad what the problem is, and his dad is totally deluded, insisting that we are the manipulators and are feeding 12 year olds thoughts and that we are evil. Dad has in the past, even got physical and bundled the kids into the car and dragged them out.
Fast forward to this week and its happened again. 12 year old doesn't want to go to his dads. The problem is that during lockdown, dad has still been putting his career first, and going to work every day on his time, leaving the kids with his wife, who the kids hate. This all came to a head yesterday when 12 year old refused to go but the 7 year old decided to go in the end and see his dad.
Dad has done nothing but harass us ever since. Constantly phoning, texting, asking when 12 year old is coming back to his. Apparently we are harbouring bad behaviour (since when did a child expressing where he wanted to be constitute bad behaviour?), dad is totally ignorant to the issues with his wife, he just says "we both love the kids and put them first, they have a loving home". That indeed might be his perception, but certainly isnt the perception of the kids.
We told 12 year old that the best solution is to not get angry, and just tell his dad in a calm, straight manor, what the problems are and why he does't want to see his dad. To his credit today, 12 year old has done just that, phoned his dad and told him in a calm manor, that he doesn't like his dads partner, shes too much, she makes all the rules and he even said "dad, shes really changed you and you aren't the person you used to be". The dads response was that this was a load of rubbish and that 12 year old needs to sort himself out and get his arse round there. In the meantime, me and mum are being harassed by him, and being accused again of feeding his thoughts and putting rubbish into his head. He has also said he is not releasing the 7 year old back to us, until 12 year old agrees to go round there again (7 year old is a BIG mummys boy and would be greatly upset by this).
We have rang our local council this morning who have family help department this morning (they have been involved before when the kids said they didn't want to go round their dads). All they basically said this time was that as they have 50/50 responsibility, dad is within his rights to keep 7 year old round his, just as we are entitled to keep 12 year old round ours.
I guess my next question is, what is the next thing we can do? Dad just absolutely point blank refuses to accept that the issues are to do with his partner, and its us putting words into the 12 year olds mouth. Dad has threatened us with solicitors (we are used to this and so far its come to nothing. My partner says even if he does get solicitors, she will represent herself, as she is only acting in the best interests of her kids. If they don't want to go round their dads because of his partner, they don't have too).
We currently have 12 year old with us, who is as good as gold generally considering all the bulls
t and manipulation he has been through in the past. It doesn't help that him and his dad used to be really close, but all that has gone since new wife came on the scene.I understand that with a 50/50 arrangement, both have parental responsibility, but surely keeping a 7 year old round his dads because his 12 year old doesn't want to come round, can't be right? He said if we attempt to go round there to collect the 7 year old on Saturday as we usually do, they will be out of the house.
Any advice would be most welcome.
Thank you
zzrman said:
Are the sharing arrangements the subject of a Court Order? Or informally agreed by your partner and her Ex?
If the former you need specialist advice from a solicitor and I suspect the same is true if it's the latter.
Nothing gone through court. Its all informal between my partner and her ex.If the former you need specialist advice from a solicitor and I suspect the same is true if it's the latter.
Breadvan72 said:
OP, if the matter cannot be resolved by discussion, seek legal advice. The rights and best interests of the children come first. Parents mainly have obligations, not rights. Children are not property.
I thought as much and thank you for replying. We thought Legal Advice would be the option. The dad has an answer for everything unfortunately and during mediation in the early stages of the breakup, he even accused one of the mediators of being biased towards my partner! so this is what we are up against.I dont think discussion between us will get anywhere as his point blank refusal to accept any blame lies at his door makes life very difficult, bit of a s
t situation and not come at the greatest time but this has been coming to a head for ages!Muzzer79 said:
Is there a family member that can have a word with the Dad?
His parents/siblings/etc?
Or a close family friend?
You need someone who knows the child but is not on 'your' side.
They might be able to get through to Dad that it's the child's choice whether he goes round there or not.
Unfortunately not, they are all cut from the same cloth!His parents/siblings/etc?
Or a close family friend?
You need someone who knows the child but is not on 'your' side.
They might be able to get through to Dad that it's the child's choice whether he goes round there or not.
If its an informal agreement then technically the children dont have to go anywhere, and can stay there with your partner, if that is the case then she also would be entitled to apply for maintenance if she so desired.
I would suggest speaking to a solicitors that deal in family issues sepcifically, most will offer a half hour to an hour consulation for free.
It might also be worth suggesting some form of councelling for the father and the children so that they can tell him how they feel in a impartial environment.
This may also help if the issue of access ends up in court, you may also want to get the children to make a note of everytime they are at the fathers but he is at work, again, this may help if the court is involved.
I would suggest speaking to a solicitors that deal in family issues sepcifically, most will offer a half hour to an hour consulation for free.
It might also be worth suggesting some form of councelling for the father and the children so that they can tell him how they feel in a impartial environment.
This may also help if the issue of access ends up in court, you may also want to get the children to make a note of everytime they are at the fathers but he is at work, again, this may help if the court is involved.
James_N said:
zzrman said:
Are the sharing arrangements the subject of a Court Order? Or informally agreed by your partner and her Ex?
If the former you need specialist advice from a solicitor and I suspect the same is true if it's the latter.
Nothing gone through court. Its all informal between my partner and her ex.If the former you need specialist advice from a solicitor and I suspect the same is true if it's the latter.
If not then be aware it's a big (and common) mistake to leave a divorce 'open ended' where the finances are concerned because in the absence of a court order either party can bring a claim against the other 5/10/20 years later when circumstances may have changed.
As far as the kids are concerned it sounds like a very tricky situation. I had some issues myself mostly in the immediate aftermath of separation and ended up in a position of applying for a children's arrangements order stipulating where the children would send their time, but an imminent court hearing was enough to focus the ex's mind and bring her to a reasonable negotiating position, and I withdrew the application.
I would definitely echo BV's point about seeking legal advice.
It sounds like it would be reasonable to suggest varying the shared care in such a way that they were based with you for >50% of the time whilst visiting their Dad when he was actually free for them. I'd certainly consider doing the same if my ex was leaving them with her partner all the time, and if they expressed strong discontentment with this arrangement. That said, they should be positively encouraged to spend time in both homes/families and not just given free reign to determine where they spent their time based on 'favourite parent of the month' sentiments as - reflecting on my own kids - that tends to change quite whimsically depending on who they've fallen out with most recently.
If the Dad really won't listen or engage reasonably and pragmatically then you can always go down the road of seeking a court order. I imagine the fact that he attempted an OD with the kids in the house wouldn't reflect brilliantly on him. I hope for everyone's sake that that's distant past stuff and that he's in a much more stable state of mind now.
The starting point is always that unless either parent is unsuitable (violent, drug dependent etc) then the court will want to see the children spending time with each parent. BUT, as the children get older and if there is a dispute then the court process will take in to consideration the wishes of the children and this will impact on the outcome. I would think that in the case of your 12 year old, they would likely listen very hard to what is said and will recommend accordingly.
Keep in mind that the court process will expect you to agree terms between yourselves, even when in court. The court will only make a judgement if you cannot agree between yourselves, as happened in my situation. If you don't agree and the court is left to decide they will likely follow a recommendation from CAFCASS who are the court's child care specialists. CAFCASS will interview and observe you all (inc wife B) and make a recommendation to the judge. Getting to that point is quite stressful, so getting an agreement between you is a good idea if possible.
Keep in mind that the court process will expect you to agree terms between yourselves, even when in court. The court will only make a judgement if you cannot agree between yourselves, as happened in my situation. If you don't agree and the court is left to decide they will likely follow a recommendation from CAFCASS who are the court's child care specialists. CAFCASS will interview and observe you all (inc wife B) and make a recommendation to the judge. Getting to that point is quite stressful, so getting an agreement between you is a good idea if possible.
theboss said:
Slight digression, but is that the same for the financial settlement also, or did that get formalised by way of a court order separately?
This was sorted by way of a clean break - insisted on my dads wife!theboss said:
It sounds like it would be reasonable to suggest varying the shared care in such a way that they were based with you for >50% of the time whilst visiting their Dad when he was actually free for them.
This has already been suggested and met with a strict "not happening. its my time and i decide who looks after them" by the dadtheboss said:
That said, they should be positively encouraged to spend time in both homes/families and not just given free reign to determine where they spent their time based on 'favourite parent of the month' sentiments as - reflecting on my own kids - that tends to change quite whimsically depending on who they've fallen out with most recently.
This has also happened in the past too and they have always been encouraged that if they have been naughty, they can't then just go and hide around the other parents house, however, the dad now uses this as an excuse to bury his head in sand and call "naughty behaviour" for everything even though on this occasion, its nothing to do with behaviour and everything to do with his wife but because in the past they have done the old "hide round the other parents house" routine, the dad just assumes this is what is happening all the time now and we get accused of feeding the 12 year olds thoughts, which is simply not truetheboss said:
If the Dad really won't listen or engage reasonably and pragmatically then you can always go down the road of seeking a court order. I imagine the fact that he attempted an OD with the kids in the house wouldn't reflect brilliantly on him. I hope for everyone's sake that that's distant past stuff and that he's in a much more stable state of mind now.
Yes hes much more stable now he has a woman. Hes one of these that can't survive without one. Unfortunately, hes picked one that his kids really dislike! Thank you for the input. This really shouldn't have to go anywhere near court. The dad needs to grow a pair and accept the wrong doings of his wife and he needs to reign her in a bit, but he simply wont and puts it down to bad behaviour on the kids part all the time!
Gixer968CS said:
The starting point is always that unless either parent is unsuitable (violent, drug dependent etc) then the court will want to see the children spending time with each parent. BUT, as the children get older and if there is a dispute then the court process will take in to consideration the wishes of the children and this will impact on the outcome. I would think that in the case of your 12 year old, they would likely listen very hard to what is said and will recommend accordingly.
Keep in mind that the court process will expect you to agree terms between yourselves, even when in court. The court will only make a judgement if you cannot agree between yourselves, as happened in my situation. If you don't agree and the court is left to decide they will likely follow a recommendation from CAFCASS who are the court's child care specialists. CAFCASS will interview and observe you all (inc wife B) and make a recommendation to the judge. Getting to that point is quite stressful, so getting an agreement between you is a good idea if possible.
This is what we were thinking in the fact that 12 (just!) is old enough really to have a voice. He is absolutely insistent that he doesn't want to go round his dads. I think if it did go to court, the dad would never ever agree to us having the kids more. Its all about money, he doesn't want to pay a penny. The thing with wife and dad is that they are very good actors, they can talk the talk and act all sweet and innocent. I'm hoping a court would see straight through this just like the mediators did!Keep in mind that the court process will expect you to agree terms between yourselves, even when in court. The court will only make a judgement if you cannot agree between yourselves, as happened in my situation. If you don't agree and the court is left to decide they will likely follow a recommendation from CAFCASS who are the court's child care specialists. CAFCASS will interview and observe you all (inc wife B) and make a recommendation to the judge. Getting to that point is quite stressful, so getting an agreement between you is a good idea if possible.
From what you've said there is nothing terrible going on - it sounds like the new wife runs a tigher ship and is bit more highly strung than the kids are used to and the older one doesn't like it.
My Grandmother was the most kind and gentle person you would ever meet, but she'd threaten to wash your mouth out with soap and water if children ever swore - although she'd never actually do it. Don't overthink things.
Being able to rub along with people you don't like is an extremely useful life skill, as is the ability to do get on and do things you don't really want to do. I have a 12 year old and I'm trying hard to impart these values to her - but it's a difficult age as they know their own mind but aren't quite emotionally intelligent enough to fully consider other people.
I would sit down with the 12 year old and tell him it's important he has a relationship with his father and continues to spend time with him. Whilst he's in their house he has to conform their rules and try his best to get along with the stepmother - and if he thinks she's out of line to calmly discuss it with his father in private. Explain the existing arrangement was made in the best interests of all concerned and that as he gets older he will get more of a say in how much time he spends with each parent by sitting down and discussing it.
Getting him to ring his Dad and tell him he hates his wife was never going to end well, was it? You/your wife should have seen that coming and provided advice to the contrary and arranged for such a discussion to be face to face.
My Grandmother was the most kind and gentle person you would ever meet, but she'd threaten to wash your mouth out with soap and water if children ever swore - although she'd never actually do it. Don't overthink things.
Being able to rub along with people you don't like is an extremely useful life skill, as is the ability to do get on and do things you don't really want to do. I have a 12 year old and I'm trying hard to impart these values to her - but it's a difficult age as they know their own mind but aren't quite emotionally intelligent enough to fully consider other people.
I would sit down with the 12 year old and tell him it's important he has a relationship with his father and continues to spend time with him. Whilst he's in their house he has to conform their rules and try his best to get along with the stepmother - and if he thinks she's out of line to calmly discuss it with his father in private. Explain the existing arrangement was made in the best interests of all concerned and that as he gets older he will get more of a say in how much time he spends with each parent by sitting down and discussing it.
Getting him to ring his Dad and tell him he hates his wife was never going to end well, was it? You/your wife should have seen that coming and provided advice to the contrary and arranged for such a discussion to be face to face.
not sure how much the mum has done to encourage the 12 year old to go, but children of this age need boundaries.
my experience is best not to discuss the new partners never ends well, it will have been taken that the mum has poisoned the 12 yr old.
that said you can't hold the kid to ransom, I would state to defuse the situation that you will stick to the arrangement and both children come on agreed days.
You will have to start down a long expensive legal road which will be many thousands, so I would try a family mediator first.
my experience is best not to discuss the new partners never ends well, it will have been taken that the mum has poisoned the 12 yr old.
that said you can't hold the kid to ransom, I would state to defuse the situation that you will stick to the arrangement and both children come on agreed days.
You will have to start down a long expensive legal road which will be many thousands, so I would try a family mediator first.
surveyor_101 said:
not sure how much the mum has done to encourage the 12 year old to go, but children of this age need boundaries.
my experience is best not to discuss the new partners never ends well, it will have been taken that the mum has poisoned the 12 yr old.
that said you can't hold the kid to ransom, I would state to defuse the situation that you will stick to the arrangement and both children come on agreed days.
You will have to start down a long expensive legal road which will be many thousands, so I would try a family mediator first.
Hi Allmy experience is best not to discuss the new partners never ends well, it will have been taken that the mum has poisoned the 12 yr old.
that said you can't hold the kid to ransom, I would state to defuse the situation that you will stick to the arrangement and both children come on agreed days.
You will have to start down a long expensive legal road which will be many thousands, so I would try a family mediator first.
We encourage him to go every single time hes due to go round there. Its a constant battle to get him to go round. The dad has always been the main disciplinarian in the house even when my partner and her ex were together. He still smacks them now, which isn't great really. Just ruling by fear but we have always encouraged very much so that he has a relationship with his dad, especially as they used to be very close.
Things have took a big turn today. After talking to 12 year old last night for a while, he reluctantly agreed to meet his dad and to go for a walk somewhere local, which passified his dad and stopped his constant texting at least for one evening!
so fast forward to this afternoon, dad finishes work and comes round to take 12 year old out for a walk. 12 year old wanted to take his mountain bike (he loves his bike!), dad immediately gets out of the car and tells him hes not taking the bike and hes here to go for a walk, things rapidly escalated and resulted in 12 year old riding off, with dad trying to follow in the car! After 10 mins of something out of a tom and jerry cartoon, dad and son finally get together outside our house and 12 year old agrees to leave the bike behind (there was no harm in him taking it but dad gets straight off on the wrong foot by saying he cant take it - you would think he would relent just once and let his son do as he wants!) but anyway, they went for a fairly hefty walk, gone a good hour and a half.
Although dealing with the dad is absolutely impossible and he never ever listens, we thought such a long walk, would yield positive results but how wrong we were! 12 year old comes back storming into the house and straight into his room in a right state, crying his eyes out. Dad wheelspins off in the car. It transpires that 12 year old had actually been honest with his dad about the issues with stepmum and dad hadn't liked what he had heard, so on the way back to our house, he said to 12 year old "fine, live with your mum and never come and see me if you don't want to, but i'll have no option but to kill myself!) (sound familiar from my OP?).
Now considering he had driven off in the car, we had no idea what he would do next, so my partner rang 101. 101 advised us to try and phone stepmum at home to see if dad had arrived home or not. There was no answer from her, so police went round to confirm everything was OK. As predicted, police reported back that dad was upset, but OK physically/
Next thing, stepmum phones up, screaming and shouting down the phone, asking what the hell has been going on and why we are doing all of this, so we tell her absolutely straight on the phone what has happened. It also transpires that dad is now sat, staring into space, saying absolutely nothing. The exact same tactic he did last time when he took an overdose. Stepmum is screaming "I have to phone the crisis teams now as hes not saying or doing anything" (dads auntie just so happens to work for said crisis team too!).
So basically its ended up that we told stepmum straight what the problems were and that she needed to butt out and let dad have more of a say with regards to the kids. She didn't like it and ended up putting the phone down. Dads father then phones up, who has just arrived at their house. Hes a reasonable man and the only member of the family that you can actually reason with. We tell him that we haven't been playing a malicious game, and we tell him everything that has happened past and present. He says he will try talking to them and will try and sort something out. He agrees its absolutely unacceptable as a father to tell your 12 year old hes going to kill himself, but this is exactly what dad does when he doesn't get his own way! Not great behaviour for an Advanced Practitioner that works in a GP surgery is it?!
So the situation now is that 12 year old is still with us, 7 year old is coming back to us tomorrow, and dads father is going to try and reason with stepmum and dad and try to act as mediator to try and solve the problems. We have told them that this is the final straw. Anymore issues and we will have to take it legal, which isn't what we want to do, but if dad stil wont listen to the issues his son has, and just threatens to kill himself whenever he is told something he doesn't want to hear, what choice do we have. This is twice now hes threatened to kill himself and twice he has had to have the crisis teams out to him. As a father you are supposed to set an example to your kids, and this isn't a very good example!
Sounds like you have grounds to be genuinely concerned about the children’s welfare in the father’s care.
I’d be speaking to a family solicitor personally, and setting out a proposal for whatever shared care arrangement you believe would work in their best interests, with reasoning outlined. I wouldn’t be critical of anyone and I’d put it in writing / by email and give them some time to think about it and construct a considered response. The idea wouldn’t be to threaten them with legal/solicitors/court but just to put forward a rational proposal to change the current arrangement.
See what they do...
I’d be speaking to a family solicitor personally, and setting out a proposal for whatever shared care arrangement you believe would work in their best interests, with reasoning outlined. I wouldn’t be critical of anyone and I’d put it in writing / by email and give them some time to think about it and construct a considered response. The idea wouldn’t be to threaten them with legal/solicitors/court but just to put forward a rational proposal to change the current arrangement.
See what they do...
theboss said:
Sounds like you have grounds to be genuinely concerned about the children’s welfare in the father’s care.
I’d be speaking to a family solicitor personally, and setting out a proposal for whatever shared care arrangement you believe would work in their best interests, with reasoning outlined. I wouldn’t be critical of anyone and I’d put it in writing / by email and give them some time to think about it and construct a considered response. The idea wouldn’t be to threaten them with legal/solicitors/court but just to put forward a rational proposal to change the current arrangement.
See what they do...
Its normally them threatening solicitors but i agree in this case, its something we need to think about and have told them as such. We have said that if we hear one more complaint that the kids aren't happy, then we will have to take it further.I’d be speaking to a family solicitor personally, and setting out a proposal for whatever shared care arrangement you believe would work in their best interests, with reasoning outlined. I wouldn’t be critical of anyone and I’d put it in writing / by email and give them some time to think about it and construct a considered response. The idea wouldn’t be to threaten them with legal/solicitors/court but just to put forward a rational proposal to change the current arrangement.
See what they do...
James_N said:
Its normally them threatening solicitors but i agree in this case, its something we need to think about and have told them as such. We have said that if we hear one more complaint that the kids aren't happy, then we will have to take it further.
Well, it sounds like you know what you're dealing with.If its any consolation, I went through a disastrous period with my ex, when it seemed like there was no way of salvaging amicable relations. She tried to make every decision unilaterally and when it seemed like I had any influence over the children's affairs she eventually did the ultimate mud-sling and made an unfounded accusation of child sex abuse getting social services involved. It was ridiculous.
A few years later and we're absolutely fine, it's all water under the bridge. I can't read historic emails without my blood boiling, so have to just let it go. We now make decisions around the children's schooling, living arrangements, birthday parties etc. together. I encourage my kids to have some respect for her partner and I hope she does the same for me.
In my case it required her coming to some realisation that I was actually the children's biggest advocate and that it was only logical that we should be allies for the next 10 years, not enemies. As I said before, the fact that I started proceedings and had a court date combined with good solicitors and a clear record of well reasoned, unemotive written communication, focussed her mind. That's what it took, but it was enough and it worked.
I hope you can resolve this without going through the whole process.
theboss - thanks for the reply, that does sound a truly horrific time you went though and i'm glad things are a little better for you now, makes life easier doesn't it.
After all the chaos the other day, we had a good chat to 12 year old about what happened and what was said on the walk. 12 year old gave a pretty detailed account of some of the things dad said to him, and it was stuff that you should never say to a child, especially as their father. I had my phone on the side recording this chat for two reasons. 1) I wanted to get a decent account on record of what had happened, incase this does go further and 2) i knew at some point the dad would deny saying those things, so i wanted to get an account from son of what happened and we wanted to prove that we aren't manipulating him or putting words into his head, we are merely trying to get to the bottom of what is going on.
Low and behold this morning, dad contacts us via text asking why his son is still not talking to him. We told him its as a result of upsetting his son and saying things to his son he should never say, things like hes going to kill himself etc.
He has actually had the nerve this morning to say he has not said any of those things and was merely upset that his son didn't want to see him. So effectively, he is accusing his son of now being a liar and making the whole thing up, but as i say, we recorded the chat we had with him and its pretty clear and concise what happened - its not something he would make up, especially given the state he came home in.
Not sure what the next step is really, looks like we will have to take legal advice. pretty hard to do in this lockdown i would imagine
After all the chaos the other day, we had a good chat to 12 year old about what happened and what was said on the walk. 12 year old gave a pretty detailed account of some of the things dad said to him, and it was stuff that you should never say to a child, especially as their father. I had my phone on the side recording this chat for two reasons. 1) I wanted to get a decent account on record of what had happened, incase this does go further and 2) i knew at some point the dad would deny saying those things, so i wanted to get an account from son of what happened and we wanted to prove that we aren't manipulating him or putting words into his head, we are merely trying to get to the bottom of what is going on.
Low and behold this morning, dad contacts us via text asking why his son is still not talking to him. We told him its as a result of upsetting his son and saying things to his son he should never say, things like hes going to kill himself etc.
He has actually had the nerve this morning to say he has not said any of those things and was merely upset that his son didn't want to see him. So effectively, he is accusing his son of now being a liar and making the whole thing up, but as i say, we recorded the chat we had with him and its pretty clear and concise what happened - its not something he would make up, especially given the state he came home in.
Not sure what the next step is really, looks like we will have to take legal advice. pretty hard to do in this lockdown i would imagine
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