Another holiday question!
Discussion
Hi all
Apologies this is another holiday question but I didn’t want to crash someone else’s thread.
I have a summer holiday booked to go to Italy in July. Right now the travel restrictions don’t allow us to go but the reports from Italy say that travel may be ok from June. But there is still some confusion on what this means from the UK.
I have paid the following.
£3k to BA for flights
£5k to the Villa company which is a deposit.
BA have not yet cancelled the flights but are offering a voucher that can be used until April 2022 should I want to cancel the holiday. Given the long valid for period and with an optimistic outlook I believe we would be able to use the voucher by expiry date.
The villa company is asking for the remainder of the cost (£12K) by 3rd of June. They have emailed me saying that “ in the unfortunate event you will have to cancel your reservation, please, be informed that the extraordinary financial situation that we are facing at the moment, does not allow us to refund our customers.
We will issue a voucher for the amount you have already paid that you can use by the end of 2021 for the same property or, in case of unavailability, for another property of equal or higher quality , selected by our booking department.”
For personal reasons we know we won’t be able to go to Italy for a summer holiday next year so a voucher is not suitable. Also we chose the property with care and they can’t even guarantee that.
Really not keen to hand over £12k and then find that we can’t travel if they are renewed travel restrictions in Italy or indeed if we have to quarantine on return to the UK.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
Josh
Apologies this is another holiday question but I didn’t want to crash someone else’s thread.
I have a summer holiday booked to go to Italy in July. Right now the travel restrictions don’t allow us to go but the reports from Italy say that travel may be ok from June. But there is still some confusion on what this means from the UK.
I have paid the following.
£3k to BA for flights
£5k to the Villa company which is a deposit.
BA have not yet cancelled the flights but are offering a voucher that can be used until April 2022 should I want to cancel the holiday. Given the long valid for period and with an optimistic outlook I believe we would be able to use the voucher by expiry date.
The villa company is asking for the remainder of the cost (£12K) by 3rd of June. They have emailed me saying that “ in the unfortunate event you will have to cancel your reservation, please, be informed that the extraordinary financial situation that we are facing at the moment, does not allow us to refund our customers.
We will issue a voucher for the amount you have already paid that you can use by the end of 2021 for the same property or, in case of unavailability, for another property of equal or higher quality , selected by our booking department.”
For personal reasons we know we won’t be able to go to Italy for a summer holiday next year so a voucher is not suitable. Also we chose the property with care and they can’t even guarantee that.
Really not keen to hand over £12k and then find that we can’t travel if they are renewed travel restrictions in Italy or indeed if we have to quarantine on return to the UK.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks
Josh
A few days ago a work colleague was telling me something almost identical for similar value for similar dates in Italy (Northern part, near a famous Lake) three week rental.
They were offered the same sort of forward arrangement and could see the plus points, cashflow etc for the co, security of "priority slots" for 2021 etc, already paid so money out the bank account (via CC) anyway........
They pointed out that as however, there were four couples making up the £15k holiday it was very unlikely that they could all get the same periods of time off work again in 2021, if even they were in work at that point. Also hadn't yet found out if their 'flights' were going ahead and UK Gubberminyt restrictions on return may hinder outward travel and return date for future UK commitments.
James, the Villa call centre chap said he didn't think he'd be able to do split vouchers to third parties whom although named on the original booking hand't contributed a payment, and regretfully would have to offer a full refund to the primary cardholder making the booking. That was a week ago. Spawny mate has money in his CC today. But his employer is holding him to the holiday period as annual leave "!to make sure he is using at least pro-rata carried over, bought and annual leave as per previously agreed booked dates prior to CV-19 government restrictions".
(The flights are a different matter, three couples on three airlines, on couple cycling.....)!
They were offered the same sort of forward arrangement and could see the plus points, cashflow etc for the co, security of "priority slots" for 2021 etc, already paid so money out the bank account (via CC) anyway........
They pointed out that as however, there were four couples making up the £15k holiday it was very unlikely that they could all get the same periods of time off work again in 2021, if even they were in work at that point. Also hadn't yet found out if their 'flights' were going ahead and UK Gubberminyt restrictions on return may hinder outward travel and return date for future UK commitments.
James, the Villa call centre chap said he didn't think he'd be able to do split vouchers to third parties whom although named on the original booking hand't contributed a payment, and regretfully would have to offer a full refund to the primary cardholder making the booking. That was a week ago. Spawny mate has money in his CC today. But his employer is holding him to the holiday period as annual leave "!to make sure he is using at least pro-rata carried over, bought and annual leave as per previously agreed booked dates prior to CV-19 government restrictions".
(The flights are a different matter, three couples on three airlines, on couple cycling.....)!
Shnozz said:
f
k me I know this is PH but £17k to hire a villa? Respek mofo. As they would say.
Hi. It is a milestone birthday holiday and a celebration of coming through a serious illness in my immediate family that has been planned and saved for diligently. It is a very special villa. You only live once and all that ...k me I know this is PH but £17k to hire a villa? Respek mofo. As they would say. 
But yes I have had a few moments like that myself!!!OP, it is possible that the contract with the villa company is governed by the law of Italy. If it is, I doubt that anyone here can advise you on that. Did you deal via an agency in the UK, or book direct with an Italian company? If the latter, Italian law probably applies unless otherwise agreed.
If English law governs the contract, then if the travel is rendered impossible by Government action, the contract will be frustrated and you will be entitled to a full refund. Or you can claim the refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The problem then will be recovering the money from a company that may be insolvent.
Have you insured the holiday? Buying insurance now would be expensive and it might be that no insurer will undewrite Covid risk at this point.
I suggest that you ask the villa company if it can keep the money in escrow in a designated bank account so that it is available to be repaid if the travel becomes impossible.
Negotiate.
If English law governs the contract, then if the travel is rendered impossible by Government action, the contract will be frustrated and you will be entitled to a full refund. Or you can claim the refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The problem then will be recovering the money from a company that may be insolvent.
Have you insured the holiday? Buying insurance now would be expensive and it might be that no insurer will undewrite Covid risk at this point.
I suggest that you ask the villa company if it can keep the money in escrow in a designated bank account so that it is available to be repaid if the travel becomes impossible.
Negotiate.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th May 07:06
Whilst I have every sympathy for holidaymakers in this position you also have to have sympathy for businesses etc.
If there are restrictions in Italy that mean they cant let holidaymakers use it thats one thing, but if the issue is that UK holidaymakers dont want to use it due to quarantine restrictions on the return to the UK then that is another.
That doesnt mean I would be happy to suck up the loss myself, just that the consequences of this virus are widespread and we all have a responsibility to share the pain I guess.
What is the current advice issued by the Foreign Office on travel abroad? It might be a claim on the travel insurance if covered.
If there are restrictions in Italy that mean they cant let holidaymakers use it thats one thing, but if the issue is that UK holidaymakers dont want to use it due to quarantine restrictions on the return to the UK then that is another.
That doesnt mean I would be happy to suck up the loss myself, just that the consequences of this virus are widespread and we all have a responsibility to share the pain I guess.
What is the current advice issued by the Foreign Office on travel abroad? It might be a claim on the travel insurance if covered.
Breadvan72 said:
OP, it is possible that the contract with the villa company is governed by the law of Italy. If it is, I doubt that anyone here can advise you on that. Did you deal via an agency in the UK, or book direct with an Italian company? If the latter, Italian law probably applies unless otherwise agreed.
If English law governs the contract, then if the travel is rendered impossible by Government action, the contract will be frustrated and you will be entitled to a full refund. Or you can claim the refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The problem then will be recovering the money from a company that may be insolvent.
Have you insured the holiday? Buying insurance now would be expensive and it might be that no insurer will undewrite Covid risk at this point.
I suggest that you ask the villa company if it can keep the money in escrow in a designated bank account so that it is available to be repaid if the travel becomes impossible.
Negotiate.
Hi. Thanks All.If English law governs the contract, then if the travel is rendered impossible by Government action, the contract will be frustrated and you will be entitled to a full refund. Or you can claim the refund under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. The problem then will be recovering the money from a company that may be insolvent.
Have you insured the holiday? Buying insurance now would be expensive and it might be that no insurer will undewrite Covid risk at this point.
I suggest that you ask the villa company if it can keep the money in escrow in a designated bank account so that it is available to be repaid if the travel becomes impossible.
Negotiate.
Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 20th May 07:06
The company is a UK Ltd company and yes I have insurance. But the insurance company appears to have altered its T&C and now says. In the event you are offered a voucher. “ there is no cover under your travel insurance.
You’ll need to speak to your travel provider to get a refund. Travel providers are dealing with high volumes of cancellations right now and it may take some time for your refund to be processed.“
So playing this through. If we are not allowed to travel due to Govt advice then surely BA will cancel the flight and offer me money or a voucher. As stated the voucher can be used against multiple flights into 2022 so that is fine.
The villa company is saying they will only give a voucher which Has to be used by end of next year and they can’t guarantee the same property or location in Italy. The added complexity is if the flights are cancelled after I pay the balance meaning the villa company has 17k of my money for a year with no guarantee they will still be around next year.
On top of this the insurance companies won’t pay out cause I have been offered a voucher. I appear to be in a no win situation.
Thanks
Josh
Breadvan72 said:
You are doing the standard PH thing: You ask for advice on contracts that (a) you have not checked yourself, and (b) you do not tell us the terms of. Good PH skills but hopeless from the point of view of obtaining advice.
Thanks for the feedback. Part of posting on here is to share and have a discussion with like minded people to help and with the stress I am feeling over lockdown it is part of my therapy. Regards
Josh
I'm in a similar boat in that I'm meant to be going to Italy for a week in July, have paid in full for flights, and just a deposit so far for accommodation.
The difference is that the cost of the whole holiday is less than just your flights (flights £600, accommodation I've only paid £100 deposit so far) so it makes the decision to cancel a lot easier rather than losing £5k!
I'm not keen to pay up in full and push over to next year because I'd rather start again and line up the accommodation and flights (which aren't yet available for next summer) - the perils of not booking a package I guess! I don't want to go really because it won't be the holiday that I wanted to have if there are restrictions, social distancing, restaurants and attractions limited, mandatory mask wearing etc.
So, I suppose the question is if you can go would you still want to go? If so probably pay up and see how it plays out as there is a reasonable chance of borders being open, and if it is cancelled by the operator then you should be entitled to a refund, no? (As much as they are trying to push vouchers to preserve their financial position). Pay as much as you can on credit card in case they go bust?
The problem is if the villa consider themselves open but the flights don't run, and you can't get there which would probably be an insurance job.
No easy answer and a difficult position. I've thought a fair bit about my holiday and I don't even have that much money to lose.
The difference is that the cost of the whole holiday is less than just your flights (flights £600, accommodation I've only paid £100 deposit so far) so it makes the decision to cancel a lot easier rather than losing £5k!
I'm not keen to pay up in full and push over to next year because I'd rather start again and line up the accommodation and flights (which aren't yet available for next summer) - the perils of not booking a package I guess! I don't want to go really because it won't be the holiday that I wanted to have if there are restrictions, social distancing, restaurants and attractions limited, mandatory mask wearing etc.
So, I suppose the question is if you can go would you still want to go? If so probably pay up and see how it plays out as there is a reasonable chance of borders being open, and if it is cancelled by the operator then you should be entitled to a refund, no? (As much as they are trying to push vouchers to preserve their financial position). Pay as much as you can on credit card in case they go bust?
The problem is if the villa consider themselves open but the flights don't run, and you can't get there which would probably be an insurance job.
No easy answer and a difficult position. I've thought a fair bit about my holiday and I don't even have that much money to lose.
josh bear said:
The company is a UK Ltd company and yes I have insurance. But the insurance company appears to have altered its T&C and now says. In the event you are offered a voucher. “ there is no cover under your travel insurance.
You’ll need to speak to your travel provider to get a refund. Travel providers are dealing with high volumes of cancellations right now and it may take some time for your refund to be processed.“
Apart from the issue of not changing the policy after it started, one thing which may take some navigating is many travel insurance policies are written as if you've booked a package holiday - so there's an assumption that if it gets cancelled, the travel operator will look after you. Hence some insurers exclude cancellation due to FCO advice - it's not necessary for a package holiday.You’ll need to speak to your travel provider to get a refund. Travel providers are dealing with high volumes of cancellations right now and it may take some time for your refund to be processed.“
Travel insurance is a bit more complicated if you make your own arrangements.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff