Mini roundabout and turning right - was I wrong?
Discussion
Instead of a T junction I am at a mini roundabout. (Coming up the side road to the junction) Car on direct right right is turning left and other car behind him is quite a way away so I pull out and start to turn right. The roundabout is tight so yes, I am going slow.
I was practically straight and no longer turning across the roundabout when a this second car comes at me at speed, slams the anchors and hurls abuse.
I was shouting back 'I am on the bleddy roundabout you should give way'. But despite the fanfare, he slipped by and was gone.
If I have made an error then sure, I will refrain from doing so again but did i?
I can get those on the main road feeling they have priority as they would had it been a T junction but the roundabout has give way signs and lines for all.
My gut feeling is he did not like being slowed down for the roundabout but surely that is the whole point of them?
I was practically straight and no longer turning across the roundabout when a this second car comes at me at speed, slams the anchors and hurls abuse.
I was shouting back 'I am on the bleddy roundabout you should give way'. But despite the fanfare, he slipped by and was gone.
If I have made an error then sure, I will refrain from doing so again but did i?
I can get those on the main road feeling they have priority as they would had it been a T junction but the roundabout has give way signs and lines for all.
My gut feeling is he did not like being slowed down for the roundabout but surely that is the whole point of them?
This is my big problem with roundabouts. The rule is give priority to traffic approaching from your right (unless signs say otherwise). The question is, what defines approaching? Assuming you're already at the give way line, then if the person to the right is also at the give way line, then they have priority - that one's easy. If they're 10 yds from the give way line, are they still approaching. They probably are. If they're 50 yds from the give way line, but moving at 30mph and showing no signs of slowing down, are they still approaching. I would say they're not, but most people drive as if they are.
normalbloke said:
What would you do differently with hindsight?
Is a tough one as the roundabout was so tiny - passenger has added she felt the 2nd car was way, way back too.I think I will try to get around more quickly but as said, it was very tight and I don't think there was more to be done than drive smoothly but slowly around as I also had to be sure the other lane going straight on is aware I am turning right.
difficult for anyone to say because no one else was there to.see the other vehicles approach speed and distance.
It does seem like the other driver believed they had priority but then if they had time to slam on, blast the horn and start gesturing they probably also.had time to.simply moderate their speed and allow it to blow over them and carry on with the day.
It does seem like the other driver believed they had priority but then if they had time to slam on, blast the horn and start gesturing they probably also.had time to.simply moderate their speed and allow it to blow over them and carry on with the day.
Alucidnation said:
I thought is was give way to traffic already established on the roundabout?
Certainly my belief too. Am always wanting to know though if things have changed and apparently this has been removed as a clear directive from the HC but that the new 'give way to traffic from the right' is supposed to be understood as including that because any car on the roundabout is (potentially)crossing your right.
Jamescrs said:
difficult for anyone to say because no one else was there to.see the other vehicles approach speed and distance.
It does seem like the other driver believed they had priority but then if they had time to slam on, blast the horn and start gesturing they probably also.had time to.simply moderate their speed and allow it to blow over them and carry on with the day.
Agree and I am not going to say I can or never do get things wrong. It does seem like the other driver believed they had priority but then if they had time to slam on, blast the horn and start gesturing they probably also.had time to.simply moderate their speed and allow it to blow over them and carry on with the day.
But I can remember I pulled out as the driver in front of the angry chap was turning left and this driver was going very slow too due to the narrow lanes. If he was close to this car then that would have slowed him right down.
But I do tend to agree, was someone not prepared to give an inch and objected to having to slow down. S
What you did sounds fine. There's a lot of - I'll call it what it is, rudeness - at mini roundabouts these days by drivers with too much sense of entitlement and too little appreciation of the highway code. Being beeped/shouted at after reacting to someone carving out in front/approaching too fast to stop, is a routine matter round here. Sometimes I swear theyre exceeding L+10%+2 which makes them officially dangerous too.
I'll leave for you the discussion of the generally quite predictable chariots of choice.
I'll leave for you the discussion of the generally quite predictable chariots of choice.
There's a mini roundabout near me that I use a lot, that has replaced a T junction onto a main road. The problem is that people on the main road get a view as long as you like straight down the road and tend to cross it at speed once they have seen nobody is turning across them. But if you come up to the thing via the 'side' road and look to your right there is a bloody great big brick wall that obscures your view until you are right up to the white lines, and you have to slow to a virtual standstill.
Of course, drivers coming from the left can't read this situation at all, unable to workout that you are going slow because you can't see to your right. They just assume you are dithering about or don't know the rules of the road. So they just drive on regardless. Many times I have slowed to establish I have a clear entrance onto the roundabout, driven on, and found myself having to brake to avoid T-boning someone coming from the left - who then get all upset with me.
I wonder whether restricted lines of sight, leading to disparate speeds, had anything to do with the OP's problem.
Of course, drivers coming from the left can't read this situation at all, unable to workout that you are going slow because you can't see to your right. They just assume you are dithering about or don't know the rules of the road. So they just drive on regardless. Many times I have slowed to establish I have a clear entrance onto the roundabout, driven on, and found myself having to brake to avoid T-boning someone coming from the left - who then get all upset with me.
I wonder whether restricted lines of sight, leading to disparate speeds, had anything to do with the OP's problem.
jondude said:
Alucidnation said:
I thought is was give way to traffic already established on the roundabout?
Certainly my belief too. Am always wanting to know though if things have changed and apparently this has been removed as a clear directive from the HC but that the new 'give way to traffic from the right' is supposed to be understood as including that because any car on the roundabout is (potentially)crossing your right.
The actual wording from the current version of the highway code is (I've tried to only post the relevant wording without changing meaning or context)
adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions
be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you.
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to:
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
In my view it all comes down to a combination of the definition of approaching, coupled with the road markings at the end of your lane. My understanding is that is the road markings are two solid lines, then you MUST stop before checking it is safe to proceed.
adjust your speed and position to fit in with traffic conditions
be aware of the speed and position of all the road users around you.
give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to:
traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
In my view it all comes down to a combination of the definition of approaching, coupled with the road markings at the end of your lane. My understanding is that is the road markings are two solid lines, then you MUST stop before checking it is safe to proceed.
We have mini roundabouts nearby. On several occasions drivers seem to ignore the roundabout completely. One in particular that was put on a main through road with one side road to replace the previous T-junction layout. I have been turning right into this side road regularly and have had near misses with cars on the main road not even slowing on approach. Just driving through at 30mph.
Yesterday I was turning right, about 5 yards from the roundabout so going slow. A cyclist shot through causing me to brake. He was 30-40 yards away when I was at that distance. No attempt to slow. I was about 5 yards from entry when he was at 30-40 yards. I had to brake. To clarify, I was indicating a right turn when 30-40 yards away.
A couple of years ago I witnessed a collision there. A car/cyclist. Car turning right and cyclist going straight on. Similar to my near miss incident.
I have become wary at mini roundabouts as they seem to be missed by many.
Yesterday I was turning right, about 5 yards from the roundabout so going slow. A cyclist shot through causing me to brake. He was 30-40 yards away when I was at that distance. No attempt to slow. I was about 5 yards from entry when he was at 30-40 yards. I had to brake. To clarify, I was indicating a right turn when 30-40 yards away.
A couple of years ago I witnessed a collision there. A car/cyclist. Car turning right and cyclist going straight on. Similar to my near miss incident.
I have become wary at mini roundabouts as they seem to be missed by many.
Kawasicki said:
Thanks for posting
I think I preferred the clarity of "give way to traffic already established on the roundabout".
Roundabouts is indeed give way at or immediately beyond, the line to traffic circulating onI think I preferred the clarity of "give way to traffic already established on the roundabout".
the carriageway of the roundabout .. (TRSGD S9
However mini roundabout is - must give priority to vehicles coming from the right .. (TRSGD S9 7 5)
Edited by Graveworm on Monday 25th May 20:30
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