Trader Misrepresenting themselves as a private seller

[anonymous-user]

Wondered if someone can point me in the right direction of what law a trader would be breaking if a trader misrepresented themselves as a car trader?

I.e. Someone sells me a rotten car under the pretence that it's a private sale and they have sold hundreds of cars in the last couple of year and then tries to shirk off any problems by saying "it's a private sale guv"

[Jasandjules]

Well firstly HMRC would like to know. Secondly, are you intending to sue him?

[anonymous-user]

Jasandjules said:

Well firstly HMRC would like to know. Secondly, are you intending to sue him?

First point already done.

Second point, yes. Selling the car and using the misreprentation act to recover loses but wasn't sure if there was another law that they would be breaking as well by misrepresenting themselves as a private seller (I can't see anything specific in the misrepresentation act that would cover it).

[Jasandjules]

sugerbear said:

First point already done.

Second point, yes. Selling the car and using the misreprentation act to recover loses but wasn't sure if there was another law that they would be breaking as well by misrepresenting themselves as a private seller (I can't see anything specific in the misrepresentation act that would cover it).

Well you will be using the consumer protection legislation and arguing he is a business thus you are entitled to that protection will you not?

[A1VDY]

Who's name was on the V5?
If it was his own and he's sold it from his house it won't matter a jot if he's a trader with premises elsewhere. Very easy for him to masquerade it as a private sale under the pretence it was his own private car.
Just a scenario, it may not apply at all..

[kestral]

sugerbear said:

First point already done.

Second point, yes. Selling the car and using the misreprentation act to recover loses but wasn't sure if there was another law that they would be breaking as well by misrepresenting themselves as a private seller (I can't see anything specific in the misrepresentation act that would cover it).

What was the misrepresentation?
What losses (damages) occured due to the misrepresentation?

[anonymous-user]

kestral said:

sugerbear said:

First point already done.

Second point, yes. Selling the car and using the misreprentation act to recover loses but wasn't sure if there was another law that they would be breaking as well by misrepresenting themselves as a private seller (I can't see anything specific in the misrepresentation act that would cover it).

What was the misrepresentation?
What losses (damages) occured due to the misrepresentation?

Once the court case it done I will reveal all and that will be either way. Win or Lose. the car in question isn't my own but a family member.

The ad didn't represent the condition of the car but was pretty explicit in providing assurance that the quality was excellent. When subsequent research has indicated it had a major and very serious underlying fault that the (very short term owner) was aware of. Not saying how I know but I have the evidence to prove it in court. The car is not as described. I know how much he paid for the car and where etc. and how much he subsequently sold it for.

basically the car is worth about four times less than it was purchased for. I know the person is tradings cars as I can see that quite clearly. they have also setup a business that buys cars (cars for cash) are then being advertised as private sale. If they had been a bit more savvy then I wouldn't be taking them to court, but some people aren't as bright as they think they are and leave a long trail of evidence, then try to hide it once the truth is out There are at least ten cars sold within a space of six months that I am aware off. This isn't the persons main job either, but that can all be revealed later on (it's interesting).

And painful lesson for my family and buyer beware as always but in that case I am not going to let it go.

[anonymous-user]

A1VDY said:

Who's name was on the V5?
If it was his own and he's sold it from his house it won't matter a jot if he's a trader with premises elsewhere. Very easy for him to masquerade it as a private sale under the pretence it was his own private car.
Just a scenario, it may not apply at all..

He is trading from his home address, not his main job either from what I can see.

edited to say.. no idea whose name was on the V5 as I didn't see the car. I expect he may have registered it in his name for a month or two but really no idea.

Edited by sugerbear on Monday 1st June 22:58

[anonymous-user]

Jasandjules said:

sugerbear said:

First point already done.

Second point, yes. Selling the car and using the misreprentation act to recover loses but wasn't sure if there was another law that they would be breaking as well by misrepresenting themselves as a private seller (I can't see anything specific in the misrepresentation act that would cover it).

Well you will be using the consumer protection legislation and arguing he is a business thus you are entitled to that protection will you not?

That is what I was't sure of. I hope I can argue two points. what you have said and then the misrepresentation part as a second. I can't see how he can argue that isn't a trader given the pattern and volume of sales.

The car was sold within a very short window, purchased from a source I have found, that alone might not have been enough, but all the other cars.. You just know when you look an ad and see all the other cars for sale that this person isn't selling cars he personally owns and drives. He was also offering finance and delivery on a some of the cars he was selling.

made it too easy for me.

[konark]

Lots of luck with the county court case.

Just show them all the other cars he's had for sale in the last few months.

The council might also like to know he's running a business from home.

[eccles]

I thought the law was pretty clear in that if you sold over 'X' number of cars in 'X' number of months then you were classed as a dealer and had to abide by dealer rules whether it was from home or a car lot.

[98elise]

eccles said:

I thought the law was pretty clear in that if you sold over 'X' number of cars in 'X' number of months then you were classed as a dealer and had to abide by dealer rules whether it was from home or a car lot.

There are no numbers to define a trader. If you buy a car with the intention of selling for a profit then you are a trader.

I think the confusion comes about because insurance companies may have limits on the amount of times you can change a car on a private policy. Obviously trade policies are designed for that very purpose.

[eccles]

98elise said:

eccles said:

I thought the law was pretty clear in that if you sold over 'X' number of cars in 'X' number of months then you were classed as a dealer and had to abide by dealer rules whether it was from home or a car lot.

There are no numbers to define a trader. If you buy a car with the intention of selling for a profit then you are a trader.

I think the confusion comes about because insurance companies may have limits on the amount of times you can change a car on a private policy. Obviously trade policies are designed for that very purpose.

I guess I was wrong then. I was going from memory of an ancient Quentin Wilson piece where he said something along the lines of 'you can sell 3 cars in 6 months, anything over that and you're classed as a trader'

[mgv8]

My brother went threw a few cars quite quickly and his insurance said he was a trader and needed a policy to reflect this. Some where to look?

[anonymous-user]

How much money is involved? This should determine whether or how much of a fight is warranted.

Try to focus on getting your side recompensed back to where it should be rather than punishment of the other.

[Pegscratch]

A1VDY said:

Who's name was on the V5?
If it was his own and he's sold it from his house it won't matter a jot if he's a trader with premises elsewhere. Very easy for him to masquerade it as a private sale under the pretence it was his own private car.
Just a scenario, it may not apply at all..

You are, unsurprisingly, wrong. If the trader wishes to rely on this being a private sale he's going to have to try a lot, lot harder than "my name on the V5, innit bruv" to persuade a court this was not a sale which would be afforded the same protections as any other as he is a trader. This is why most traders "sell" their car into their business and then sell it as a proper sale.

[m3xgx]

Hi there,

Not sure what specific laws may or may not have been broken, but if you can prove they are a trader then issues with the car should be covered under CRA2015 as long as within the specified timescales.

[barian]

If you believe a trader is masquerading as a private seller, then I believe that this is something that Trading Standards should investigate. You have to be referred to them by the Citizens Advice consumer service: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-mor... There is a link to an online form to complete.
Note that Trading Standards won't help with your individual claim against the trader.

[anonymous-user]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

How much money is involved? This should determine whether or how much of a fight is warranted.

Try to focus on getting your side recompensed back to where it should be rather than punishment of the other.

All I want is for the family member to be put back in the position they were before they purchased the car. I am less worried about seeing revenge (and digging two graves etc.), I won't be threatening him, just asking him nicely to play ball.

the family member that has spent the past two years saving and working a part-time job, saving birthday money, doing odd jobs and so on, pretty much ever last penny of savings they had. To get to the point where they have a car that doesn't work.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It's been really helpful. I will update when I have an outcome.

[Porsche guy]

Best of luck OP