Discussion
Well today took mini hifi set back to the shop that we bought it from 3.5 years ago, told them at the counter what was wrong with it and when the serving staff said "cost repair" i interjected with "CRA2015" where upon i was told it had to be dealt with by customer service by phone only.
So called up the customer service chappie who was very helpful and obliging and told me that it should have been handled at the store and reimbursed there and then (as the model in question is no longer available so a replacement item cannot be provided).
So tomorrow i will be back at the place that supplies such electronics (ruby murrays), and with a specific reference number will be shoving the chappies face right in it.
So called up the customer service chappie who was very helpful and obliging and told me that it should have been handled at the store and reimbursed there and then (as the model in question is no longer available so a replacement item cannot be provided).
So tomorrow i will be back at the place that supplies such electronics (ruby murrays), and with a specific reference number will be shoving the chappies face right in it.
gazza285 said:
Jasandjules said:
What do you expect to happen with a three and a half year old hifi unit?
He probably expects the hifi to last a reasonable amount of time, which the CRA 2015 states is six years.OP, what’s your reasoning that they should refund in full after you’ve had 3.5 years use out of it?
Jasandjules said:
gazza285 said:
He probably expects the hifi to last a reasonable amount of time, which the CRA 2015 states is six years.
Are you certain of that? You may well be right but if you have a specific reference I would read it... (Not read CRA it came out after I did my civil lit training)https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Public/Ca...
Edited by gazza285 on Saturday 25th July 21:23
gazza285 said:
Jasandjules said:
gazza285 said:
He probably expects the hifi to last a reasonable amount of time, which the CRA 2015 states is six years.
Are you certain of that? You may well be right but if you have a specific reference I would read it... (Not read CRA it came out after I did my civil lit training)‘You may be’
CRA is quite wooly with details. I’m pretty sure that after 6 months you need to prove the fault was there and also give the seller a chance to repair the item, then if they can’t you can ask for a refund but they can offer a partial refund based on the use you’ve had from the product.
In this case the OP will likely just get his money back as TBH the guy in the shop won’t give a rats ass if head office authorise a refund, it’s not his money and the stereo will just get chucked in a skip anyway.
UK contract law gives you the right to make a claim for breach of contract for up to 6 years
The CRA itself does not say anything about how long any product should last - it is quite flexible as it applies to a £10 kettle and a £400,000 car. You can make a claim for up to 6 years if the circumstances fit - but it does not mean all products have to last 6 years. It depends on what it is and it could depend on what you paid.
I would expect, say, a £500, hi fi to last more than 3 years and if it is a manufacturing defect then the retailer can repair it, or if not possible, replace it, or if not possible or disproportionate, offer a partial refund.Nothing says they have to offer a full refund in this case.
The CRA itself does not say anything about how long any product should last - it is quite flexible as it applies to a £10 kettle and a £400,000 car. You can make a claim for up to 6 years if the circumstances fit - but it does not mean all products have to last 6 years. It depends on what it is and it could depend on what you paid.
I would expect, say, a £500, hi fi to last more than 3 years and if it is a manufacturing defect then the retailer can repair it, or if not possible, replace it, or if not possible or disproportionate, offer a partial refund.Nothing says they have to offer a full refund in this case.
The actual law says this:
9Goods to be of satisfactory quality
(1)Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory.
(2)The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—
(a)any description of the goods,
(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and
(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).
(3)The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied;
(b)appearance and finish;
(c)freedom from minor defects;
(d)safety;
(e)durability.
It does not say at least 6 years. It is all a matter of how a product is viewed. For example a 10m yacht may be expected to last 6 years, a £1.99 watch, perhaps not.....
9Goods to be of satisfactory quality
(1)Every contract to supply goods is to be treated as including a term that the quality of the goods is satisfactory.
(2)The quality of goods is satisfactory if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would consider satisfactory, taking account of—
(a)any description of the goods,
(b)the price or other consideration for the goods (if relevant), and
(c)all the other relevant circumstances (see subsection (5)).
(3)The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—
(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of that kind are usually supplied;
(b)appearance and finish;
(c)freedom from minor defects;
(d)safety;
(e)durability.
It does not say at least 6 years. It is all a matter of how a product is viewed. For example a 10m yacht may be expected to last 6 years, a £1.99 watch, perhaps not.....
I had a similar experience to the OP:
Well today took mini hifi set back to the shop that we bought it from 3.5 years ago, told them at the counter what was wrong with it and when the serving staff said "cost repair" i replied that I wasn't satisfied with that and would prefer a refund where upon i was told that he didn't have the authority to do that and I should speak to Customer Services
So called up the customer service chappie who was very helpful and obliging and told me that it should have been handled at the store and reimbursed there and then (as the model in question is no longer available so a replacement item cannot be provided).
So tomorrow i will be back at the place that supplies such electronics (ruby murrays), and with a specific reference number will be getting exactly the outcome I desired
Just thought I'd let you know about the excellent service that chain offers.
Well today took mini hifi set back to the shop that we bought it from 3.5 years ago, told them at the counter what was wrong with it and when the serving staff said "cost repair" i replied that I wasn't satisfied with that and would prefer a refund where upon i was told that he didn't have the authority to do that and I should speak to Customer Services
So called up the customer service chappie who was very helpful and obliging and told me that it should have been handled at the store and reimbursed there and then (as the model in question is no longer available so a replacement item cannot be provided).
So tomorrow i will be back at the place that supplies such electronics (ruby murrays), and with a specific reference number will be getting exactly the outcome I desired
Just thought I'd let you know about the excellent service that chain offers.
voyds9 said:
As above.
But I would expect a hifi system to last 6 years (possible exception of turntable if it hasn't been used regularly)
How many hours would that be?But I would expect a hifi system to last 6 years (possible exception of turntable if it hasn't been used regularly)
An hour a day for 6 years (2,190hrs) or 12 hours a day for 6 years (26,280hrs)
Which would be "Reasonable" for the manufacturer to cover and then is the consumer able to prove that he only used it for that many hours?
(there's something around a car and mileage which used to be the precedent for this part of Contract Law not sure if that's still the case)
gazza285 said:
Why not twelve hours a day for six years? I would say most electronic devices would be capable of doing that without an issue.
It may be reasonable for say a top of the range £thousand pound hi-fi to last that many hours but woudl it also be reasonable for the £2.50 Hi-Fi to last the same length of time?I court (if it comes to that) will look at what they believe is "Reasonable" and if the consumer can prove that they have only used it "Reasonably".
(there is a legal definition for Reasonable too)
Marcellus said:
It may be reasonable for say a top of the range £thousand pound hi-fi to last that many hours but woudl it also be reasonable for the £2.50 Hi-Fi to last the same length of time?
No idea how much the HiFi in question cost, but while the shop assistant may not agree with the OP, it would appear that the customer service person also thinks that the HiFi should have lasted longer, and has issued a refund notice.I would not expect any item bought from a major retailer to be substandard quality, whatever the price.
Im not fully conversant with CRA regulations but know that people keep bringing it up regarding secondhand cars, any fault occuring within 6 months is considered to been there at purchase.
Its actually not as clear cut as that, if taken to court, age,mileage and price paid are all taken into account and quite often the court sides with the dealer regarding customer expectations.
Its actually not as clear cut as that, if taken to court, age,mileage and price paid are all taken into account and quite often the court sides with the dealer regarding customer expectations.
Marcellus said:
It may be reasonable for say a top of the range £thousand pound hi-fi to last that many hours but woudl it also be reasonable for the £2.50 Hi-Fi to last the same length of time?
I court (if it comes to that) will look at what they believe is "Reasonable" and if the consumer can prove that they have only used it "Reasonably".
(there is a legal definition for Reasonable too)
I realise this proves nothing, but I've got a 24 year old home cinema amp that has migrated from main set-up, to bedroom set-up, to spare room set-up, to slightly leaky shed over that time. Still works just fine after many hours use over many years. It's a Yamaha, I think it was £350 in 1996 (middle-of-the-road price for people who don't define themselves by the contents of their hifi rack I court (if it comes to that) will look at what they believe is "Reasonable" and if the consumer can prove that they have only used it "Reasonably".
(there is a legal definition for Reasonable too)
) and I seem to recall it had a 5 year warranty. Speakers, CD changer and turntable and I was all-in for about £900. By contrast, all-in-ones that had flashy lights, logos about bass boosting etc bought by my friends for around the same money were dead within a few years.
Just something to bear in mind when looking at the shiny new things at the home electricals sheds.
Well update, it seems that both the dealer/shop and the customer service do not know what they are talking about.
So went armed with the reference number, the counter attendant checked it out and said that she could not understand the customer service information this was after waiting an hour for customer service to respond on the phone.
So now there is to be someone from the company who is going to contact us and determine what the situation is and what the remedy/will be.
So, so far customer service-out of ten 0, shop service-out of ten 0.
So went armed with the reference number, the counter attendant checked it out and said that she could not understand the customer service information this was after waiting an hour for customer service to respond on the phone.
So now there is to be someone from the company who is going to contact us and determine what the situation is and what the remedy/will be.
So, so far customer service-out of ten 0, shop service-out of ten 0.
SLCZ3 said:
Well update, it seems that both the dealer/shop and the customer service do not know what they are talking about.
So went armed with the reference number, the counter attendant checked it out and said that she could not understand the customer service information this was after waiting an hour for customer service to respond on the phone.
So now there is to be someone from the company who is going to contact us and determine what the situation is and what the remedy/will be.
So, so far customer service-out of ten 0, shop service-out of ten 0.
What happened to shoving the guys face right init? So went armed with the reference number, the counter attendant checked it out and said that she could not understand the customer service information this was after waiting an hour for customer service to respond on the phone.
So now there is to be someone from the company who is going to contact us and determine what the situation is and what the remedy/will be.
So, so far customer service-out of ten 0, shop service-out of ten 0.
hard to imagine why they haven't pulled out all the stops, maybe you would get further if you adjusted your attitude and actually understood the legislation before screaming it on the shop floor.
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