Can I legally drive it

[usn90]

I have A,B1 and B on my licence

We have bought a LWB sprinter which has 8 passenger seats, we will be making it into a race van therefore reducing the passenger numbers.

As thing currently stand, can I drive this?

[Adam205]

Yes as long as its plated max gross weight is less than 3.5T and you aren't driving commercially.

Edit: in fact at only 8 seats you may well be ok to drive commercially on B as well, not 100% on that one though. Main thing is to check the plated weight as some LWB sprinters will be plated to 4T and require C1.

Edited by Adam205 on Sunday 2nd August 19:25

Edited by Adam205 on Sunday 2nd August 19:25

[usn90]

Including the driver seat it’s 9 seats, I’m not sure if that makes the difference?

[Adam205]

You're ok up to 16 seats as long as its not commercial use.

I cant image an 8 seater LWB sprinter having a 3.5T GVW though, more likely 4T or even 5T on some, so make sure you check the plated weight.

[NGee]

You could try looking on the government website where all the different licence categories are explained.

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

[Pizzaeatingking]

Adam205 said:

You're ok up to 16 seats as long as its not commercial use.

Unless he's got 'grandfather rights' then it'll be a max of 9 seats, a D1 is needed for 10-16 seats

[Adam205]

Pizzaeatingking said:

Adam205 said:

You're ok up to 16 seats as long as its not commercial use.

Unless he's got 'grandfather rights' then it'll be a max of 9 seats, a D1 is needed for 10-16 seats

Im not saying this is definitely correct, and im guessing this is the reason the question is being asked, but there are many reputable minibus hire companies stating that you can drive a 9-16 seater minibus on a B license as long as the GVW is below 3.5T, you have held a license for 2 years, are over the age of 21 and arent driving for hire or reward. The Gov site would seem to agree with this although isnt 100% clear.

[Adam205]

https://www.gov.uk/driving-a-minibus

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2019/02/do-i-nee...

[vonhosen]

Adam205 said:

Pizzaeatingking said:

Adam205 said:

You're ok up to 16 seats as long as its not commercial use.

Unless he's got 'grandfather rights' then it'll be a max of 9 seats, a D1 is needed for 10-16 seats

Im not saying this is definitely correct, and im guessing this is the reason the question is being asked, but there are many reputable minibus hire companies stating that you can drive a 9-16 seater minibus on a B license as long as the GVW is below 3.5T, you have held a license for 2 years, are over the age of 21 and arent driving for hire or reward. The Gov site would seem to agree with this although isnt 100% clear.

The circumstances are a bit more restrictive than just those that you've outlined.

Regs said:

(6) A person who—
(a) holds a relevant full licence authorising the driving of vehicles of a class included in category B, other than vehicles in sub-categories B1 or B1 (invalid carriages),
(b)
has held that licence for an aggregate period of not less than 2 years,
(c)
is aged 21 or over,
(d)
if he is aged 70 or over, is not suffering from a relevant disability in respect of which the Secretary of State would be bound to refuse to grant him a Group 2 licence, and
(e)
receives no consideration for so doing, other than out-of pocket expenses,
may drive, on behalf of a non-commercial body for social purposes but not for hire or reward, a vehicle of a class included in sub-category D1 which has no trailer attached and has a maximum authorised mass—
(i)
not exceeding 3.5 tonnes, excluding any part of that weight which is attributable to specialised equipment intended for the carriage of disabled passengers, and
(ii)
not exceeding 4.25 tonnes otherwise,
unless such a person is by that licence authorised to drive only vehicles having automatic transmission, in which case he shall be deemed competent to drive only such vehicles in sub-category D1 as conform to the above specification and have automatic transmission.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 2nd August 20:22

[Adam205]

vonhosen said:

The circumstances are a bit more restrictive than just those that you've outlined.

You cant tow and you have to have a medical if you're over 70.....

[vonhosen]

Adam205 said:

vonhosen said:

The circumstances are a bit more restrictive than just those that you've outlined.

You cant tow and you have to have a medical if you're over 70.....

More to it than that, see above (particularly sub section (e) ) It is a voluntary driver on behalf of a non-commercial body for social purposes, which the OP wouldn't appear to fit.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 2nd August 20:26

[Adam205]

vonhosen said:

More to it than that, see above (particularly sub section (e) )

I think we'd already covered that bit, less than 3.5T GVW and not for hire or reward. Or am I missing something else (genuine question)?

[vonhosen]

Adam205 said:

vonhosen said:

More to it than that, see above (particularly sub section (e) )

I think we'd already covered that bit, less than 3.5T GVW and not for hire or reward. Or am I missing something else (genuine question)?

The 'on behalf of a non-commercial body', not just you or your mates van.

[Adam205]

vonhosen said:

The non-commercial body, not just you or your mates van.

I don't see how you driving your own van socially could be considered to be driving for a commercial body?

[vonhosen]

Adam205 said:

vonhosen said:

The non-commercial body, not just you or your mates van.

I don't see how you driving your own van socially could be considered to be driving for a commercial body?

It's not, but the exemption exists for where you are driving 'on behalf of a non-commercial body' not for driving your own van. It's for volunteer drivers within non commercial organisations. Think along the lines of amateur youth football club & a parent volunteering to drive the team minibus to an away game.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 2nd August 20:45

[blank]

9 seats total (driver plus 8 passengers) is not a minibus anyway.

If it's equal to or under 3.5t GVW it's classed exactly the same as a Corsa in terms of licence requirements (and probably speed limits).

If it's over 3.5t GVW then a standard car licence isn't enough, although I'm not sure what kind of licence you'd need as it doesn't really fit any of the other categories.

[vonhosen]

blank said:

9 seats total (driver plus 8 passengers) is not a minibus anyway.

If it's equal to or under 3.5t GVW it's classed exactly the same as a Corsa in terms of licence requirements (and probably speed limits).

If it's over 3.5t GVW then a standard car licence isn't enough, although I'm not sure what kind of licence you'd need as it doesn't really fit any of the other categories.

Over 3.5t is C1.

[Adam205]

vonhosen said:

It's not, but the exemption exists for where you are driving 'on behalf of a non-commercial body' not for driving your own van. It's for volunteer drivers within non commercial organisations. Think along the lines of amateur youth football club & a parent volunteering to drive the team minibus to an away game.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 2nd August 20:45

Interesting that many of the 'informative' websites (minibus hire / sales / insurance) seem to miss this clarification!

[Pizzaeatingking]

Adam205 said:

Im not saying this is definitely correct, and im guessing this is the reason the question is being asked, but there are many reputable minibus hire companies stating that you can drive a 9-16 seater minibus on a B license as long as the GVW is below 3.5T, you have held a license for 2 years, are over the age of 21 and arent driving for hire or reward. The Gov site would seem to agree with this although isnt 100% clear.

I know there are workarounds or exceptions (taking old people for a day out or something like that) but they are very specific situations and not the sort of thing you can just blag. I had to help a friend pass her D1 recently so she could transport a class from her school to the sports centre up the road (she teaches PE). I was talking more in the sense of driving in regular situations in fairness.

I've been looking at minibus hire recently for a wedding, from big companies to smaller ones they were all pretty clear that you need a D1 to drive them. No doubt there are some backstreet places that would rent them out to anyone but I've not found any (yet!)

[Cold]

Just as an FYI and feel free to ignore as it's not relevant to the OP, the Grandfather categories are usually as follows (and can be really handy sometimes):